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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jul-05-11 | | mworld: well that was hard! |
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| Jul-05-11 | | MiCrooks: Actually, as others have commented earlier, after Ng5+ Qxg5 Nxd7 (I assume otherwise just a piece down) White is probably better but not clear that he is winning like in the other lines. |
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| Jul-05-11 | | mworld: Trying to understand the solution a bit better. David's defense of 21.Nxg6 Rxf1+ 22.Rxf1 Qg7 has got me scratching my head as to how its a clear win. For those that thought this simple, please explain? |
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| Jul-05-11 | | stukkenjager: Looks like we have a tough week ahead. |
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| Jul-05-11 | | stukkenjager: 21.Nxg6! Rxf1+ 22.Rxf1 Qg7 23.Ng3! Nf6 24.Nf4+ Kh8 25.Nxe6 Qh7 26.e4 Nd7 27.Qc3 Nc4 28.d5+ Nce5 29.Rf5 looks very convincing, easy no? |
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| Jul-05-11 | | mworld: <stukkenjager> lol well played. I'd say that sums it up pretty well. 26.e4 even! Why could I not see 20 moves ahead, and so quiet some of them too. |
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| Jul-05-11 | | Patriot: <gmalino> What's the plan if 21...Qxg5? This line may not be as critical as 21...hxg5 since black is giving the piece back but it is an option. |
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Jul-05-11
 | | Check It Out: 21.Nxg6
Springs to mind.
21...Rxf1+ 22.Rxf1 Kxg6
Declining the sac doesn't look good either, though it seems worthy of more investigation. Now where to put the discovered knight check. How about, 23.Nf6+ Kg5
Kf7 loses the queen to the discovered check, and Kg7 gets mated with Qh7. 24.h4+ Kxh4
Hm, this is getting too complicated for a Tuesday.
25.Qe4+ Kg5 26.Qg4+ Kh6 27.Qh5+ Kg7 28.Qh7#
Get out of here, that can't be right, it's too hard for a Tuesday. ---
I also saw:
21.Nxd7 Qxd7 22.Nf6+ Rxf6 23.Rxf6
This leaves white up the exchange with good attacking position. Let's check.
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Okay, so 21.Nxg6 was the move. I'm going to Shredder check the quickest way to win: So, Shredder says don't take the N on g6 with the king. Instead defend with something like 21...Qg7, with a  (+8.45) advantage for white. On to the mate:
OH! I forgot the black h-pawn blocks the king retreat, so 26.Qg4# is mate. |
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| Jul-05-11 | | rogl: I would say the simplest win is 21.♘xd7 ♕xd7 22.♘f6+ ♖xf6 23.♖xf6 ♖g8(looks ▢)24.♖af1 ♖g7(what else?) 25.♕e4 and black looks absolutely busted.
click for larger view |
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| Jul-05-11 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: <rogl> This is what I thought, but it turned out to be harder than expected to win against Crafty EGT after 25... Nc4. |
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| Jul-05-11 | | ajile: After 21.Nxg6 the threat of the discovered attack is too great. |
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| Jul-05-11 | | fightclub: <patzer2> Excellent analysis. About your PS
<P.S.: My question to our administrators would be were we really supposed to see the winning pinning combination 7 or 8 moves deep to realize 21. Nxg6!! was an "easy" solution? Maybe the alternative 21. Nxd7! winning a piece by double attack in six moves supposed to be the easy solution? Or the easy solution might be to make the puzzles a little harder every day to maximize online participation and revenues.> I'd like to say that there is a third possibility i.e. <CG>, just like Mr Heinrich Wagner, did not see all the other variations and did indeed think (probably mistakenly but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt and say, innocently) that it was an easy puzzle. To avoid this situation (and not rely on the actual player's resignation) <CG> could run chess engines right after the first "solution" ply and make sure the machines are screaming a win/material advantage. In the above puzzle, if you run the machines even one ply later (after assuming 21...Kxg6), it's a forced win. As <CHESSTTCAMPS> has put it humorously and aptly, it is <a clear case of premature resignation>. |
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Jul-05-11
 | | takchess: <Once's> enjoyable story took the sting out of my incorrect Ng5+. Seemed hard for an easy puzzle. Comment to be logged by <the ones> |
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| Jul-05-11 | | tbentley: At 15 ply, Rybka says
21. Nxg6 Rxf1+ 22. Rxf1 Qg7 23. Ng3 Nf6 24. Nf4+ Kh8 25. Nxe6 Qh7 26. Qc3 Nd5 27. Qxa5 Nxe3 (+4.25) 21. Nxd7 Qxd7 22. Qa3 (22. Nf6+ Rxf6 23. Rxf6 and 22. Rxf8 Rxf8 23. Qa5 etc. are not far behind) Rxf1+ 23. Rxf1 Nc4 24. Nf6+ Kg7 25. Nxd7 Nxa3 26. bxa3 etc. (+3.55) |
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| Jul-05-11 | | Diademas: I did not see it comming, but now Im learning to see the world like <once> does it.
When I wake up I tune in to the frequence I think the good people at chessgames.com wants me to tune in to. That means monday is a bliss, tuesday is nice, and when we get to sunday, Im long lost. And ever so often they fool me!
I check the day; Ok, its tuesday, and still they have an unwanted surprise for me. No easy mate or Queen sac. Hmmm, Ill give it a crack, and instant gratification is at hand!
I do love POTD! |
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| Jul-05-11 | | wals: Rybka 4 x 64
Top 4 candidate moves:-
Analysis by Rybka 4 x64: d 21 : 1hr 37 min :
1. (8.15): 21.Nxg6 Rxf1+ 22.Rxf1 Qg7[] 23.Ng3[] Nf6 24.Nf4+[] Kh8[] 25.Nxe6[] Qh7 26.Qc3[] Nd5 27.Qc5[] c6 28.Rf8+[] Rxf8 29.Qxf8+ Qg8[] 30.Qxh6+[] Qh7[] 31.Qf8+[] Qg8 32.Qf5[] Nc4 33.e4[] Qh7 34.exd5[] Qxf5 35.Nxf5 cxd5 36.b3[] 2. (5.45): 21.Nxd7 Qxd7 22.Qa3[] Rxf1+ 23.Rxf1 Nc4 24.Nf6+ Kg7 25.Nxd7 Nxa3 26.bxa3 Rc8 27.Nc5 e5 28.dxe5 Re8 29.e6[] Re7 30.Nxa6 Rxe6 31.Nxc7[] Rxe3 32.Nxb5 g5 33.a4 Re4 34.Nc3 Rc4 35.Rc1 Kg6 36.Kf2 3. (2.87): 21.Ng5+ Qxg5[] 22.Nxd7[] Rf5 23.e4[] Rxf1+ 24.Rxf1 Qe7 25.Nf6+[] Kg7 26.h4 Nc6 27.e5[] Rd8 28.h5[] Kh8 29.Qxg6[] Qg7 30.Rc1[] Ne7 31.Qxg7+ Kxg7[] 32.Rxc7[] Kf8 33.Rd7 Rc8 34.Ra7 Rc1+ 35.Kh2[] Rc6 36.Nd7+ 4. (1.73): 21.Nf6+ Rxf6[] 22.Rxf6 Qxf6 23.Nxd7[] Qg7 24.Ne5 Nb7 25.Rc1 c5 26.h4 c4 27.Qe4 Rf8 28.h5 Nd6 29.hxg6+ Kg8 30.Qh4 Kh8 31.Qh3 Rf6 32.g4 Kg8 33.Qh1 Rf8 34.Rf1 Rxf1+ 35.Kxf1 a5 36.Ke2 Black's errors-
17...Kh7, +1.12. Best, Rfc8,  0.35.
18...dxe4, +2.42. Best, Nc4, +1.14.
20...Nd7, +8.15. and Black resigns after, 21. Nxg6. |
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| Jul-05-11 | | morfishine: <Once>...<They call me mad...> Wonderful post that, to me, winds its way like a magnet seeking its happy union, to find the essence of chess: what satisfies one is all that is necesary...everything else is just rubbish |
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| Jul-05-11 | | jheiner: Well I don't always post Mon/Tues if the line is straightforward. And with excellent posts by others, I like to hang back. Today is a mind-blowing puzzle. I started looking at the game line 21.Nxg6 but the sharp reply 21...Rxf1+ 22.Rxf1 Q moves away, and while White has a strong Kingside attack, this was too murky. With 21.Nxd7 (if 21...Qxd7 22.Nf6+ Rxf6 23.Rxf6) winning a piece or the exchange, I felt that was plenty and went to look at kibitzing. I think the most interesting part of this puzzle is deciding what YOU would have really played OTB. For me, 21.Nxd7 sufficed. Is it the "best" move...truly unclear and depends on time controls IMHO. Thoughts? |
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| Jul-05-11 | | BOSTER: <patzer2> <My question to our administrators... 21.Nxg6!! was an "easy" solution, maybe 21.Nxd7! supposed to be the easy solution?>
I don't think that the word "easy" is good to determine the solution for puzzle.
Maybe <wals> with Rybka 4 will give you the answer. |
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| Jul-05-11 | | Arcturus: Haha ! This is the BEST Tuesday puzzle ever ! Analysis 16 moves deep ! |
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| Jul-05-11 | | Patriot: <jheiner> <I think the most interesting part of this puzzle is deciding what YOU would have really played OTB. For me, 21.Nxd7 sufficed. Is it the "best" move...truly unclear and depends on time controls IMHO. Thoughts?> I completely agree. For me anyway, 21.Nxd7 was a "Tuesday solution". Analysis and time management are closely related. More analysis requires more time and so the trick is to pace yourself so that you spend less time on non-critical positions in order to save it for the critical one's. So the real goal is to find the best move within a reasonable time. If this were presented as a Sunday problem, I would've spent more time analyzing 21.Nxg6 depending on how much time I assign to it in order to find the best move within that time constraint. |
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| Jul-05-11 | | TMNMINH: Here's my thought:
21. ...Kxg6 would guarantee a loss for black, so 21. ...Rxf1+ seems best.
22.Rxf1... Black's moves Qb4 and Qd8 would save the Queen but not the King, so Qe8 and Qg7 are more relevant.
Qe8 however causes Black to lose its Queen due to Nd6 or checkmate.
22. ...Qg7 23. Ng3 Nf6 24. Nf4 Kh8 [24. ...Kg8 25. Nfh5] 25. Kgh5 1-0 |
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| Jul-05-11 | | TheBish: Thoenes vs H Wagner, 1911 White to play (21.?) "Easy"
I couldn't find anything better than winning an exchange, but that should be good enough! 21. Nxd7 Qxd7
Much worse is 21...Rxf1+? 22. Rxf1 Qxd7 23. Nf6+, winning the queen for White. 22. Nf6+ Rxf6 23. Rxf6 Rg8 24. Raf1 Rg7 25. Qe4
Up an exchange, White's position is dominating. However, I just noticed a little matter of Black's undefended knight on a5, and a tactic as a result of this. Let's start over! 21. Nxd7 Qxd7
Same note applies as before.
22. Rxf8! Rxf8 23. Qa3
This is what I missed before, a simple fork that wins a piece. Even better! |
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| Jul-07-11 | | Dr. Pipit Wagtail: I heard there is a collectable chess card for this match which is now quite rare and valuable. It originally came in a cigar box.... |
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Oct-20-13
 | | Richard Taylor: I play this Qe2 line sometimes - is it "The Worrall" or "The Wormald"? Both Alekhine and Anand essayed it at different times. |
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