|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jan-26-10
 | | Mateo: Hello Chess fans. So they are following Leko-Caruana so far, in a sharp and deeply analysed variation of the Spanish, where Black gets 3 pawns for the piece. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | AdrianP: <Hesam7> Maybe if Rybka's recommending 22 Bd7, it's thinking that if 22 Rxf2, Black is better taking the light squared bishop (22... Rxb6) rather than the dark-squared bishop (22. ...Qxg5) as in Caruana's game? |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | kb2ct: <Hesam7:>
Qc2 not Bd7
:0) |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | whiteshark: What's wrong with <22.Qd5>, offering a ♕trade-off and additionally blockading the black queenside? |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | Eyal: So Ivanchuk is the first to deviate with 22.Qd5 (instead of Rxf2). |
|
Jan-26-10
 | | Domdaniel: < Rybka is unbeatbale in this kind of positions..so Bd7 must be very strong>
Even if the first statement were true, the second wouldn't necessarily follow. And computers sometimes make dubious moves at the point of transition from book to calculation. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | cielodrive10050: look I am at work so I dont have Rybka in front of me...but in this tactical position Rybka is indeed 3200 elo points...so 400 more than Shirov and iVANCHUCK...it basically can spot them a pawn and still win...so any Rybka suggestion has to be taken very very seriously |
|
Jan-26-10
| | Domdaniel: Is Shirov really playing Black? He castled. He hasn't moved his g-pawn. He let his opponent open the g-file. Oh, and he's got a pawn on b2. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | Eyal: <Is Shirov really playing Black? He castled. He hasn't moved his g-pawn. He let his opponent open the g-file. Oh, and he's got a pawn on b2.> Well, in the game vs. Nakamura he already saw that this stuff doesn't guarantee success against the stronger half of the table... |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | AdrianP: So if 23. Qxe5 dxe5 what does White do about his bishop which is needed for the protection of the b5 N? Maybe Bd7 ...f6, DSB moves, ...Rd8, Bg4. All very complicated. |
|
Jan-26-10
| | Domdaniel: <Eyal> Indeed. It's all too easy now to foresee a final crosstable with Shirov in the middle, with wins only against those lower down. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | Eyal: A lot of pieces half-hanging here... Well, the silicon recommendation goes 23.Nxc7 Nf4 24.Qxe5 dxe5 25.Bxf4 exf4 26.Ba4; looks somewhat better for White then, say,23.Rgxb2 Rxc6 24.Qxc6 Qxg5 25.Nxc7. |
|
Jan-26-10
| | Mateo: My main candidates moves are 23.Nxc7 and 23.Rbxb2. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | AdrianP: The most obvious candidate move - if one's not looking at an engine - is Qxe5. What's the refutation of that (I'm sure there is one)? <Eyal's> first line is interesting - hard to see that Black has adequate compensation. In the second line, I'd suspect Black is better. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | BishopofBlunder: <Mateo: My main candidates moves are 23.Nxc7 and 23.Rbxb2.> I was thinking 23.Nxc7, so it must be wrong. |
|
Jan-26-10
 | | tamar: A subtext which must be occurring to both players is Ivanchuk vs Shirov, 2009
in which Ivanchuk converted a piece versus 3 pawn ending in 84 moves. Don't know why Shirov would voluntarily defend such a position, which tends to favor the piece the longer it goes. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | Eyal: If White is going to take on b2, doing it with Rb1 seems to allow Black a draw after 23.Rbxb2 Rxc6 24.Qxc6 Ng3+(!) 25.hxg3 Qxg5 26.Rb1 (defending against the mate threat of Qc1+ Kh2 Qh6#) 26...Qh5+ 27.Rh2 Qxf3+ 28.Rg2 Qh5+ etc. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | BishopofBlunder: Ivanchuk is certainly having a long think on this (can't say that I blame him). |
|
Jan-26-10
| | Mateo: <Eyal: If White is going to take on b2, doing it with Rb1 seems to allow Black a draw after 23.Rbxb2 Rxc6 24.Qxc6 Ng3+(!) 25.hxg3 Qxg5 26.Rb1 (defending against the mate threat of Qc1+ Kh2 Qh6#) 26...Qh5+ 27.Rh2 Qxf3+ 28.Rg2 Qh5+ etc.> Interesting but is it forced? 26.Rb1 is not exactly the only move, I think. |
|
Jan-26-10
| | Domdaniel: The Black Queen isn't going anywhere, so White doesn't have to play Qxe5 at once. 23.Nxc7 seems playable, though Black has tactical counterchances. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | Eyal: <Mateo: <Eyal: If White is going to take on b2, doing it with Rb1 seems to allow Black a draw after 23.Rbxb2 Rxc6 24.Qxc6 Ng3+(!) 25.hxg3 Qxg5 26.Rb1 (defending against the mate threat of Qc1+ Kh2 Qh6#) 26...Qh5+ 27.Rh2 Qxf3+ 28.Rg2 Qh5+ etc.> Interesting but is it forced? 26.Rb1 is not exactly the only move, I think.> True, but is there any other way to prevent the basic perpetual idea? - say, if the rook moves from the g-file along the 2nd rank then 26...Qxg3. |
|
Jan-26-10
| | Domdaniel: I recall reading a Capablanca lecture, where he valued minor pieces as being worth between 3.5 and 4 pawns ... the point being that a piece can win against 3 pawns unless they have extra value by virtue of being passed, connected, advanced, etc. In this case, if white can get away with taking on c7, then almost all black's compensation is on b2. Which doesn't look sufficient ... but you never know. I'm sure several little engines have been grinding away at this very position for days ... |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | Marmot PFL: well if nothing else black has gained a lot of time |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | bernieno: Ivanchuk has thought for a long time now. It might be smart, but it can also mean that he doesn't feel comfortable in this type of position. Shirov probably likes the position, and that can be the deciding factor in the game. I doubt very much that both players will find all the right moves in this position. |
|
| Jan-26-10 | | AdrianP: <Eyal: If White is going to take on b2, doing it with Rb1 seems to allow Black a draw after 23.Rbxb2 Rxc6 24.Qxc6 Ng3+(!) 25.hxg3 Qxg5 26.Rb1 (defending against the mate threat of Qc1+ Kh2 Qh6#) 26...Qh5+ 27.Rh2 Qxf3+ 28.Rg2 Qh5+> That's a fantastic line. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
