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| Feb-06-10 | | Skylark: <David2009> - check my analysis above - I came to the same conclusion of choosing Nh5, but rather than a3 the queen should take straight away on h5 and follow up with Bh6. It took a while for the engine to turn the position around to a slight plus for white though (rybka 2.2n2) rather than the game continuation which is outright winning. |
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| Feb-06-10 | | DarthStapler: I at least considered the first move |
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| Feb-06-10 | | LoveThatJoker: <cyclon: <LoveThatJoker:> To demonstrating what I mean in the sense that things may not (just maybe not) be so clear YET (even at the same time admitting the probable plausibility -in the good sense- of 19.d5), is the idea for Black to play 19. -Qb5, intending -Qa5 with a square c3 in sight. For example; (19. -Qb5 ) 20.d6 Ne5/20.Kc2? c4/20.c4 Qb4+ 21.Kxd3 Qc3+ 22.Ke2 Qxa1 23.Bg5 Qb2+, White still has `proving`. Maybe you have some idea? Anyway, thank you from your post!> Hey cyclon. Thanks for your note, man.
Trust me! I spent a lot of time trying to find a direct refutation to 19...Qb5 and came up with a lot of lines. As you know, I do these blindfold so as to improve my OTB tactical vision. That's why I needed a little time in replying to you. Here are some that still maintain a decent advantage for White a) 20. Rb1 c4 21. Bc2 Qa5 22. Bb2 Qxa2 23.
b) 20. Rb1 Bxc3+ 21. Kxc3 Qb4+ 22. Kc2 c4 and now Fritz 12 found 23. Qh3! with a huge advantage to White. That being said after 19...Qb4 20. Rb1, Fritz 12 says that Black has an immediate draw by 20...Ne5 21. Qe3 Ng4 22. Qf3 as White must protect against the mate threat on e2. Also, I had looked at the line that Fritz 12 saw immediately which is 20. c4 Qb4 21. Kxd3 Qc3+ (21...Bxa1? 22. Bd2) 22. Ke2 Qxa1 but didn't like it because I thought that White had failed to trade material down (so as to have a big advantage with an active K and passed pawn.) However, Fritz 12 found this continuation,
23. Qd3 Bb2 24. Qd2 Bxc1 25. Qxc1 Qe5 26. Qe3 Re8 27. f3 f5 28. Qh6 Kf7 29. Qg5 Kg7 30. Rh6 fxe4 31. Qxg6+ 1.63/21 Admittedly, 17...Rxd8 provides a really good defensive try for Black, however, I am glad that I found all these lines blindfold and do not instantly need to run to Fritz or to play these moves out by hand so as to formulate a competent opinion. This isn't necessarily directed at you Cyclon, as I do not know how you approach the analysis of positions. However, it is directed at those who like to hide their small capacity for hard work behind 1's and 0's. :D LTJ |
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| Feb-07-10 | | cyclon: Okay, it's morning here and I saw your analysis, which more or less confirm my `presentiment` concerning the `status` of the position after 19. -Qb5. There seems to be no easy, clear-cut, quick win for White -but (maybe/likely) gradual by very accurate play. So, you (also) had to resort into "Fritzie" (smiles). Anyway, I appreciate your blind-fold abilities. It's also very good exercising. I have recently started to use the board + pieces with these more difficult puzzles. It's a kind of 'fun` and less tiring than blindfold - I'm aging, slowly but surely. No, I do not use pc-programs or anything like that in solving these puzzles. I don't see any point in that! Puzzles are for the 'MIND' - not for the machines - in this sense (f.e. Chessgames.com). But, at the same time - particularly regarding very complex, obscure positions- I view as a GOOD thing to have -to view afterwards, later on the site, after puzzle has been solved- a 'confirmament', or kind of 'direction-lines' by someone with F/R -programs on the web-site. Maybe I should buy one - so far I've managed decently without. |
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| Feb-07-10 | | LoveThatJoker: < cyclon: Okay, it's morning here and I saw your analysis, which more or less confirm my `presentiment` concerning the `status` of the position after 19. -Qb5. There seems to be no easy, clear-cut, quick win for White -but (maybe/likely) gradual by very accurate play. So, you (also) had to resort into "Fritzie" (smiles). Anyway, I appreciate your blind-fold abilities. It's also very good exercising. I have recently started to use the board + pieces with these more difficult puzzles. It's a kind of 'fun` and less tiring than blindfold - I'm aging, slowly but surely. No, I do not use pc-programs or anything like that in solving these puzzles. I don't see any point in that! Puzzles are for the 'MIND' - not for the machines - in this sense (f.e. Chessgames.com). But, at the same time - particularly regarding very complex, obscure positions- I view as a GOOD thing to have -to view afterwards, later on the site, after puzzle has been solved- a 'confirmament', or kind of 'direction-lines' by someone with F/R -programs on the web-site. Maybe I should buy one - so far I've managed decently without.> Yeah, man. I dislike it when people rely solely on the computer to analyze a position. I mean, if I don't want to do the work, I will rely on the computer for sure. But it is better to start with one's own abilities and then use it as a tool to improving the ideas that one started with. That's why I have no problems using Fritz. Because I know that I'm going to do my best first on my own abilities and then use it as a guide to better chess. I definitely recommend that you get one, as it will help you improve on your chess. And even though you think that you have managed to do decently without one, remember that the times have changed and even Super Grandmasters rely on computers to assist them in their analysis. In fact, that's why many Grandmasters think that Karpov's chess has deteriorated...because he has failed to adapt to employing the tools to better chess. LTJ |
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| Feb-07-10 | | cyclon: Ok, I agree. It's most likely that you're right. Note, I never said I don't respect computers ( + programs ) - on the contrary! Human abilities amazes me. I consider computer + internet to be among the MOST important inventions by human-kind. I could live without any other machine these days (personally), but NOT without the COMPUTER. |
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| Feb-07-10 | | LoveThatJoker: Cool, cyclon. I hope you have a great Sunday.
And thanks for telling me of 19...Qb5. Good analysis on your part. LTJ
PS. As a treat for you I'm including this as I left Fritz 12 running for 6.5 hours on this line a) 20. Rb1 c4 21. Bc2 Qa5 22. Bb2 Qxa2
Analysis by Fritz 12:
1. (1.17): 23.Qg4 Bf6 24.f3 Kf8 25.Qg3 Be5 26.Qh4 Re8 27.Qh6+ Kg8 28.Ke2 Bg7 29.Qh4 Bb5 30.g4 2. (0.90): 23.Qe3 Bb5 24.f3 Re8 25.g3 Rc8 26.Qg5 Ba4 27.Bxa4 Qxa4 28.Qe7 Re8 29.Qa3 Qd7 30.Ra1 Qb5 31.Bc1 |
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| Apr-23-18 | | Saniyat24: Pia's forced entrance at the eleventh hour...! |
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| Feb-19-23 | | jrredfield: I considered both 15 Nxe6 and 15 Bxe6 at first, but dismissed Bxe6 due to 15 ... fxe6. The order of these two moves is critical. 15 Nxe6 must come first so that the Bishop is still attacking the e6 square. After 15 Nxe6 if Black plays 15 .. fxe6, 16 Qg4 puts additional pressure on the e5 square and Black's K becomes quite vunerable. So 15 ... Re8 will give Black a bit more life, but after 16 Ng5 Nd8 17 Qf3 Qf5 18 Qxf5 gxf5, White can fight it out in the mid game and attain a won end game. Black would have been better with 12 ... Na5 instead of 12 ... Ba6. Black also blundered a bit with 13 ... hxg6 instead of 13 ... fxg6. 13 hxg6 opens the h file for the White rook. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | Brenin: 15 Nxe6 fxe6 16 Qg4 seemd rather obvious. Black has 16 ... Kf7 but then 17 Rh7 looks deadly, while 16 ...Bc8 17 Qxg6 followed by Qh7+ and Rh3 is just as bad for Black. His 17 ... Nxd5 was desperation; why didn't White simply take the N with 18 cxd4, and then play Rh3, rather than allowing the N to gobble up the B on b3 and the R on a1? |
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Feb-19-23
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Second "already known" puzzle this week. 4/5 with 2 already known is not that bad. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | mel gibson: I thought 14. Q-g4 but that loses according SF. Stockfish 15 says:
15. Nxe6
(15. Nxe6 (♘f4xe6 ♖d8-e8 ♘e6-g5 ♘c6-d8 ♕d1-f3 c7-c5 ♗c1-e3
♗a6-b7 O-O c5-c4 ♗b3xc4 ♖a8-c8 ♗c4-b3 a7-a5 ♖f1-c1 a5-a4 ♗b3-d1 ♖e8-e7
♕f3-g4 f7-f5 ♕g4-g3 b6-b5 ♗d1-e2 ♘d8-e6 e4-e5 ♗b7-d5 ♖a1-b1 ♗d5-c4 ♗e2xc4
♖c8xc4 ♘g5-h3 ♕d7-c6 ♖c1-d1 ♘e6-c7 ♘h3-f4 ♖e7-d7 ♖d1-d3 ♘c7-d5 ♘f4xd5
♖d7xd5 ♗e3-g5 ♗g7xe5 d4xe5 ♖d5xd3 ♕g3xd3 ♖c4-g4 ♕d3-d8+ ♔g8-h7) +5.46/41
565)
score for White +5.46 depth 41. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | nalinw: The first 3 moves are obvious - but what makes it a Sunday puzzle is the follow up - especially seeing the mate at the end - Queen against 2 Rooks and a Knight - but can't stop mate! |
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| Feb-19-23 | | raymondhow: Yes, the first three moves are obvious - but what makes it a poor Sunday puzzle is the 4th move, where 18.cxd4 is apparently best. Since the game didn't take that route, I get to claim a rather easy Sunday solve for choosing that move. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | agb2002: The white pieces look ready to attack the black king. A quick scan yields lines like 15.Nh5 gxh5 16.Qxh5 Qe7 (to prevent Ba3) 17.Qh7+ Kf8 18.Bh6 f6 (18... Bxh6 19.Qh8#) 19.Qh8+ Kf7 20.Qxg7+. Or 15... Bh8 (15... Bf8 16.Nf6+) 16.Bg5 gxh5 17.Qxh5 Bg7 18.Bh6 f6 19.Rh3 Re8 20.Bxg7. The alternative 15.Nxg6 fxg6 16.Qg4 Re8 17.Qxg6 is also interesting (17... Qf7 18.Rh8+). Or 16... Kf7 17.d5 Ne5 18.dxe6+ Ke7 19.Qg5+ Bf6 20.Rh7+. I'm not sure. I'd probably try 15.Nxg6. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | agb2002: According to DroidFish, 15.Nxg6 is met with 15... Nxd4, a move that momentarily crossed my mind but I was too focused on the black king. I had the impression that 15.Nxe6 Re8 16.Ng5 Nd8 followed by c5 would give Black serious counterchances due to the uncastled king but DroidFish evaluates the position after 17.Qf3 almost +4. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | sfm: <raymondhow: Yes, the first three moves are obvious> They are obviously "an idea you better get" but there are still some calculations to make.
To truly solve a puzzle 100% is to find the right move for the right reason, seeing all the way to a win.
Often we do with less, just finding the best move, or a even just a good move. < - but what makes it a poor Sunday puzzle is the 4th move>
I do not understand why this make it a poor puzzle.. <18.cxd4 is apparently best.>
The engine gives that a much better score, but we are not engines.
The immediate consequences of the completely winning 18.Rh3 are easy to calculate. I've known a handful of people who always wanted to find the strongest winning move. Nice, but at times it came at a cost. Spent time, added complexity. For me the strongest move was the one I believed that I could follow through to the wanted result. If I was 90% sure could see a mate-in-X, but 100% sure I could win in some primitive, uncomplicated way, I'd take the latter.
Understanding ones own limitations is worth a lot of points. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | sfm: <agb2002: According to DroidFish, 15.Nxg6 is met with 15... Nxd4..> Yes, that was a part of the puzzle - Nxe6 or Nxg6? Hopefully we would not have played 15.-,Nxg6?? over the board. |
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Feb-19-23
 | | chrisowen: Gadzooks ji v quandary with belty it's ok fem cup x Nxe6 it's a cuff muff c hit ignoble bfg Nxe6 dirt :) |
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| Feb-19-23 | | raymondhow: << - but what makes it a poor Sunday puzzle is the 4th move> I do not understand why this make it a poor puzzle..> Because White chose another move in the game, I have no way of knowing how Black would have played against my move. So I have to call it a solve... can't really penalize myself for choosing the best move. < For me the strongest move was the one I believed that I could follow through to the wanted result. If I was 90% sure could see a mate-in-X, but 100% sure I could win in some primitive, uncomplicated way, I'd take the latter. > Point well taken. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: My first line was: 15. Nxe6 fxe6 16. Qg4 Re8 17. Qxg6 Qf7 18. Qh7+ Kf8 19. Rh3, altough you can reach the same position, with different order of moves, like: 15. Nxe6 Re8 16. Qg4 fxe6 17. Qxg6 Qf7 18. Qh7+ Kf8 19. Rh3. As this sacrifice seems to obvious, I must admit that this is not 'insane', so I'm convenced that must be another move. I suggest 15. Qg4 which threats two attacks: 1) 15... Na5, the expected combination 16. Nxe6 fxe6 17. Bxe6+ capturing the enemy's ♕ (I love it!) or 2) Re8 16. Qh3 Kf8 17. Bxe6 fxe6 18. Nxg6+ Kf7 19. Qh5. If the King was playing maybe I'll chose this move, because it hides more the plan and leaves Black with more problems to solve. Time to check. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | outplayer: Ne6 is easy to see but I could not afford to calculate the continuation. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | outplayer: <King.Arthur.Brazil>, I wonder who you are. You can see 6 moves ahead. That's amazing. Pheraps you are someone that I know. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: Monday puzzles commonly involve heavy piece sacrifices on the h-file. The rest of the week commonly involves sacrifices at e6. The key to the first few moves here was realizing that the bishop needed to be preserved after the sacrifice, not the knight. |
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| Feb-19-23 | | devere: One line is 15. Nxe6! fxe6 16. Qg4 Re8 17. Qxg6 Ne5!? 18. dxe5 Qd3 19. Bxe6+ Rxe6 20. Qxe6+ Kf8 21. Rh8+! Bxh8 22. Bh6+ Bg7 23. Qf6+ Ke8 24. Qg6+ Ke7 25. Qxg7+ Ke8 26. Qf8+ Kd7 27. e6+! Kxe6 28. Qf5+ Ke7 29.Bg5+ and Black either loses his queen after Kd6, or gets checkmated after Ke8. Nice problem. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 15.Nxe6