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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
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| Aug-16-09 | | Athamas: You lose the queen either way... Bxc3 instead of Qg2 is much stronger |
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Aug-16-09
 | | OBIT: I'm looking at this one on Sunday evening, so I'm sure it's been analyzed out by now. But, I'll add the thought processes that emanated from my feeble mind anyway. The first thing I notice is that I have allowed my queen to be trapped. No doubt I have some ingenious reason for that, and I figure the answer has to be either 20...Qxc3 or 20...Rxc3. (In a way, this one seems not so tough. The dire situation, with White about to lose his queen, suggests a drastic response.) After a few minutes of thought, I like 20...Rxc3 better because of the continuation 20...Rxc3 21. Bxa5 Bxe4 22. h4 Nxg5+ 23. Kh2 Rh3+ 24. Kg1 Rh1#, which is not there after 20...Qxf3. If White plays 22. Bxc3 instead, then I execute the main point to the capture on c3, which is 22...Nxg5+ 23. Kg1 Nh3# OK, that took all of about 10, maybe 15 minutes. Really, I can't imagine there is anything else here. I mean, I just lost my frickin' queen (hopefully on purpose) and either this attack works or it doesn't. |
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| Aug-16-09 | | Athamas: Sorry didn't see your second analysis.
The line I see is 1. Bxc3 Nxg5+ 2. Qg2 Bxg2 3. Kxg2
This is still an advantage for black but it is no longer completely winning like the other lines of play in Qxc3 continuations. |
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| Aug-16-09 | | Eduardo Leon: This one I know by heart, since I read it from The Sicilian Labyrinth, pt. 2, by the great Lev Polugaevsky: <20. ... Qxc3!!>
A beautiful queen sacrifice begins a decisive attack in the long diagonal. <21. bxc3 exf5>
Of course, <22. exf5> would be suicide: <22. ... Nxg5+ 23. Kg1 Nh3#>. And <22. Be3>, to block the defense of the knight by the rook (<22. ... Rxc3>) would be followed by <22. ... Bxe4 23. Qxf3 Rxc3> (threatening <24. ... Rxe3>) <24. Rae1 Bxf3+ 25. Rxf3 Bxg5>, and black has more pawns in the endgame. <22. Qe2>
A little trap: <22. ... Bxe4? 23. Rxf3!>, and suddenly white wins. <22. ... Rxc3!>
Black eludes the preceding trap and systematically increases the pressure. Now, white can't play <23. Rxf3 Rxf3 24. Qxf3 Bxe4>, and, again, black has more pawns in the endgame. <23. Be3>
White can try not to give back his queen, but he is doomed still. <23. ... Bxe4 24. Rxf3 Bxg5!> The last finesse. White's bishop is pinned against the rook, which is pinned against the king. The only way to avoid the deadly <25. ... Rxe3> is to unpin the rook. <25. Kg1 Bxf3 26. Qxf3 Bxe3+> And, of course, this is a won endgame. |
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| Aug-16-09 | | Eduardo Leon: White could have avoided all this trouble with <18. Bg2> and only then <19. f5>. |
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| Aug-16-09 | | TheBish: P Kral vs Barlov, 1987 Black to play (20...?) "Insane"
Material: Black is up a piece, but his queen is trapped. Candidate moves: Rxc3, Qxc3
20...Rxc3 21. Bxa5 Bxe4 22. Bxc3 Nxg5+ 23. Qg2 (not 23. Kg1?? Nh3#) exf5 24. Rxf5 Bxg2+ 25. Kxg2, and the game is far from clear. With two pawns for the exchange, Black is equal but no more. 20...Qxc3!! is the best move. Now 21. bxc3 (obviously forced) exf5! (better than 21...Bxe4 22. Qe3 Nxg5+ 23. Kg1 exf5, although this isn't bad) 22. Qe2 (or 22. Qe3 Bxg5!, but not 22. exf5? Nxg5+ 23. Kg1?? Nh3# or 22. Qxf3?? Bxf3 and wins) Rxc3! (not 22...fxe4 or 22...Bxe4 because of 23. Rxf3) 23. Be3 (or 23. Ba5 Bxe4 24. Bxc3 Nxg5+ 25. Qxe4 fxe4 and wins) Bxe4 24. Rxf3 (pretty forced since both Nd4+ and Rxc2 are threatened) Bxg5 25. Kg1 (or 25. Re1 Rxe3 26. Qxe3 Bxe3 27. Rxe3 Bxf3+ with an easy win) Bxf3 26. Qxf3 Bxe3+ 27. Kf1 f4, and Black has a big material advantage. |
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| Aug-16-09 | | karnak64: Well, as Bob is my witless, there's no way I ever would have seen this. Or even considered it.
The only thing I thought when I saw the position was, "how'd this position come about?" So I watch, read, and learn. And hope for Monday. My hat's off to my many betters here. |
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Aug-17-09
 | | LIFE Master AJ: To clarify an earlier post ...
this was the first time I had ever gone Monday-thorugh-Sunday ... and successfully solved all of the daily puzzles. |
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| Apr-09-22 | | mel gibson: Too difficult for me.
Stockfish 14 agrees with the text:
20... Qxc3
(20. .. Qxc3 (♕a5xc3 b2xc3
♘f3xg5 ♕f2-e3 ♘g5xe4 ♔h1-g1 ♖c8xc3 ♕e3-e1 ♗e7-f6 ♗b6-e3 ♖f8-e8 ♖a1-d1 e6xf5
♖f1xf5 ♘e4-c5 ♗e3xc5 ♖e8xe1+ ♖d1xe1 ♗f6-e5 ♖e1xe5 d6xe5 ♖f5xe5 h7-h6
♖e5-e8+ ♔g8-h7 ♗c5-b4 ♖c3xc2 ♖e8-e7 ♖c2-c1+ ♔g1-f2 ♗b7-d5 ♖e7-d7 ♗d5-e6
♖d7-d6 ♗e6-c8 h2-h4 ♖c1-c4 h4-h5 a6-a5 ♗b4xa5 ♖c4-c5 ♗a5-b4 ♖c5xh5 ♖d6-c6
♗c8-e6 ♖c6-b6 ♖h5-f5+ ♔f2-g1 ♗e6-c4 ♗b4-f8 ♖f5-e5 ♖b6-c6 ♖e5-e1+ ♔g1-h2
♖e1-e8 ♗f8-b4 ♖e8-e2+ ♔h2-g3 ♖e2-e4) +5.69/41 109) score for Black +5.69 depth 41. |
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| Apr-09-22 | | Brenin: Black is a B ahead but his Q is trapped. The a8-h1 diagonal is very inviting, so let's remove the defender of e4 with 20 ... Qxc3 21 bxc3. Now I chose the obvious-looking 21 ... Bxe4, threatening 22 ... Nxg5+ 23 Kg1 Nh3 mate, e.g. 22 Qxf3 Bxf3+ 23 Rxf3 Bxg5, with a won endgame for Black, or 22 Qe3 Nxg5+ 23 Kg1 exf5, and with B+N+3P and a continuing attack for his Q Black has good winning chances. However, it seems that the subtler follow-up 21 ... exf5 is even stronger. |
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| Apr-09-22 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: I've seen only the line: 20...♖xc3 21. ♗xa5 ♗xe4 22. ♗xc3 ♘xg5+ 23. ♔g1 ♘h3# or 22. h4 ♘xg5+ 23. ♔h2 ♖h3+ 24. ♔g1 ♖h1#. But, for 23. ♔g1 ♘h3+ 24. ♔h2 ♘xf2 25. ♗xc3 ♗xh4 Black has no check-mate. Either 22. ♖fe1 ♗a8 23. h4 ♘xg5+ 24. ♔g1 ♘h3+ 25. ♔f1 ♘xf2 26. ♗xc3 ♗xh4 and there is an end-game to play. |
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Apr-09-22
 | | al wazir: I intended something like 20...Rxc3 21. Bxa5 Bxe4 22. Bxc3 Nxg5+ 23. Kg1 Nh3#, but of course that isn't forced. White can play 23. Qf3 Nxf3 24. Rxf3 Bxf3+ 25. Kg1 Nxg5+ or 23. Qg2 Bxg2+ 24. Kxg2, ending up even or ahead in material. It would have been fun if it had worked! |
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| Apr-09-22 | | goodevans: <Brenin: [...] I chose the obvious-looking 21 ... Bxe4> Me too. SF tells me that after the Q-sac Black's position is so strong that <21...Nxg5> is also winning. I'm about to add this terrific game to one of my collections. |
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Apr-09-22
 | | perfidious: Superb exploitation of White's error at his eighteenth move and an object example of the need to always be on the alert when attacking. |
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| Apr-09-22 | | agb2002: Black is a bishop up.
White has trapped the black queen.
The first idea that comes to mind is 20... Qxc3 21.bxc3 Bxe4: A) 22.Rfc1 Nxg5+ 23.Kg1 Nh3+ wins a piece and two pawns. B) 22.Rg1 Nh4+ 23.Rg2 Nxg2 wins decisive material. C) 22.h3 Nxg5+ 23.Kh2 Rxc3, with the double threat Rxh3+ and Rxc2, looks very good for Black. D) 22.h4 Nxg5+ 23.Kh2 Nf3+
D.1) 24.Kg3 Bxh4+ and 25... Bxf2 wins decisive material (25.Kf4 Bxf2 26.Kxe4 Nd2+). D.2) 24.Kh3 Rxc3 looks very good for Black.
D.3) 24.Kh1 Nxh4+ followed by Nf3+ and Rxc3 looks very good for Black. E) 22.Qe2 Nxg5+ 23.Rf3 (23.Kg1 Nh3#) 23... Bxe2+ wins decisive material. F) 22.Kg2 Kxg5+ 23.Kg3 Rxc3+ 24.Be3 Bxf5 (or perhaps 24... Rxc2), with the double threat Ne4+ and Rxc2, seems to give more than enough compensation for the queen. G) 22.Qe3 Nd2+ 23.Kg1 Nxf1 24.Qxe4 (24.Kxf1 Bxf5 looks good for Black) 24... Nd2 followed by Nc4, unclear. |
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| Apr-09-22 | | goodevans: <perfidious: Superb exploitation of White's error at his eighteenth move...> Absolutely. He clearly underestimated 18...Ne5, which is a strong move even if White can resist the temptation to trap Black's Q. White had to preserve his LSB. If 19.Bg2 then 19...Ng4 so 19.Be2 or 19.Bh5 look better. If then 19...Rxc3, White can create some complications by advancing 20.f6 before taking 21.bxc3 and retain some chances of survival. <... and an object example of the need to always be on the alert when attacking.> Note to self, if I want to throw the pawns forward in front of my castled K and my opponent has a B on the long diagonal aimed at him then having a minor guarding that diagonal might be a good idea. |
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| Apr-09-22 | | TheaN: I played <20....Qxc3> after pondering Rxc3 for a while: interesting concept here, if you're about to lose a piece you might as well throw it at the enemy camp, and that's why only Qxc3 works. <21.bxc3> alternatives are ill fated. Per puzzle start Black is already a piece up (at penalty of a trapped queen, of course) so even winning Nf3 back is not enough for White. Not that he does really, as Nf3 is immune for a while. Case in point: 21.Qxf3? Qxf3 22.Rxf3 Bxe4 -+ and Black goes a rook up. <21....Bxe4 -+>. I know now that Barlov played exf5 first and apparently both moves evaluate roughly the same with similar ideas. I didn't feel like calculating all lines after Bxe4, but at least 22.Qxf3 Bxf3+ 23.Rxf3 Bxg5 -+ is dead won, and else Black's just dominating the board with the two pieces. A discover is looming, and White can't do much about Be7 joining the attack (not at cost of material at least). |
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| Apr-09-22 | | whiteshark: on <21...Bxe4> 
click for larger view
White to move
White to move
1) -3.22 (36 ply) 22.Qe3 Nxg5+ 23.Kg1 exf5 24.Rf2 Ne6 25.Ba5 Bh4 26.Re2 Rc4 27.Rd1 d5 28.Bb4 Rfc8 29.Kf1 f4 30.Qa7 Bf5 31.Rd3 R4c6 32.Qd7 d4 33.Rf3 Bg4 34.Ref2 Bxf2 35.Rxf2 f3 36.h3 Bxh3+ 37.Ke1 Nf4 38.Qxd4 Ne2 39.Rxe2 fxe2 40.Kxe2 Rg6 41.Qd3 Be6 42.Kd2 Rg1 43.Qd6 Bg4 44.Qxa6 2) -4.18 (35 ply) 22.Qxf3 exf5 23.Bd4 Bxg5 24.a4 bxa4 25.Rxa4 Rc6 26.h4 Bd2 27.h5 Bxf3+ 28.Rxf3 g6 29.c4 Rfc8 30.Rd3 Bf4 31.c3 Re8 32.Kg2 Re2+ 33.Kf1 Re4 34.Ra5 Kf8 35.c5 dxc5 36.Bxc5+ Ke8 37.Bb4 Bc7 38.Rad5 Rce6 39.hxg6 hxg6 40.Bd6 Re1+ 41.Kg2 Bb6 42.Rd2 Rg1+ 43.Kh2 Re4 44.Bg3 3) -8.34 (35 ply) 22.g6 Ng5+ 23.Qg2 fxg6 24.Qxe4 Nxe4 25.fxe6 Rxc3 26.Ba5 Rc4 27.Rxf8+ Kxf8 28.Re1 Bf6 29.e7+ Ke8 30.Bb4 Nf2+ 31.Kg1 Nh3+ 32.Kf1 Be5 33.Re2 Nf4 34.Rf2 Kxe7 35.Ke1 Ke6 36.Kd1 Nd5 37.Rf8 Nxb4 38.axb4 Rxb4 39.Ra8 Ra4 40.Ra7 Ra1+ 41.Ke2 6.0 minute analysis by Stockfish 11 v064 |
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Apr-09-22
 | | scormus: 20 .... Qxc3 was a bit too easy for it to count for credit on its own. Then went with 21 .... Bxe4 which looked promising. I suppose I can at least take some satisfaction for making the <Brenin> and <agb2002> norms.
Though probably wouldn't have without the BQ being trapped. |
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Apr-09-22
| | pittpanther: I had 21 ...Nxg5 which also seems to be quite good for black. I do see how 21 .... ef opens up some other very good possibilities for black. |
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| Apr-09-22 | | henilsson: mud dr cud crave it v quagmire than bit we key o ploy size achtung mud on toll it v i rc gnaw it v buxom fix i pack dub cook crack i echo cuff v it v i clung flid dab go deb good fig v it was garcon baby bubble again lecture cuddle la v it c block rade baffle nag v it v c dag c fred la rc crooked c ted pe bet credible bar clad crab v it v aged nuff bar c dole book bot ok v it quick take sec lake pre rat dang rab roll v it rake let pr nag bard oar luv cue it Qxc3 dig; |
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| Apr-09-22 | | Z free or die: N engure cbbe pbcl bs gur znfgre'f unaqvjbex! |
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Apr-09-22
 | | Jimfromprovidence: 24...Bxg5 might deserve an exclamation point. <Eduardo Leon> thought so back in 2009.
click for larger viewThe bishop on g5 is obviously untouchable as black threatens 25...Rxe3. White now has to spend a crucial tempo to move his king to unpin the rook. |
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| Apr-09-22 | | Granny O Doul: I guess posterity will decide about the exclamation point. Perhaps some among us will live to see it appear. |
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Apr-10-22
 | | noads4me: When you have a lemon, make lemonade! Qxc3!! |
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sac: 20...Qxc3