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| Jul-26-13 | | Nick46: Black blundered badly with moves 22 & 23. How is the problem-solver supposed to read the looser's mind in such cases? |
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Jul-26-13
 | | OhioChessFan: Not too tough as a puzzle, but no way I'd see it OTB. Dortmund Moves Prediction Contest, hosted by <chessmoron>. Imaginary fame and fortune awaits. Starts in hours. Click on Elvis for details. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | TheaN: Friday 26 July 2013
<21.?>
Typical position where white's pieces are stronger than black's rooks, and black himself has scattered pieces not well coordinated. Black is threatening Bxe1, for starters, and white is dominating on the king side. This does suggest either the exchange sac or something else. <21.Ng6!?> is what I instantly saw. Discovers c7, the bishop is defended, and white threatens also Nxf8 and Nfe7+. 21....Bxe1!? 22.Nfe7+! seems stronger and more forcing than Bxc7, ...Qxe7 23.Nxe7+ Kh8, but now 24.Nxc8? fails due to 24....Bxf2+, so Rxe1 is best. I think white is winning, but it is not that clear cut. Likely better is <21.Rxe4> first, putting the rook 'out of peril' in a matter of speaking, after <21....dxe4 22.Qg3!> refueling threats, 22....g6 horrendously fails due to 23.Nxg6 now, yes, but not seeing how black defends the mate otherwise, thus <21....g6 22.Nxg6 fxg6 23.Bxc7> and white should be winning. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | TheaN: Still an odd position, black has quite some resources. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | morfishine: There's an old saying about a White Knight on f5. With Knights on both e5 & f5 and the Black Queen indirectly threatened by the DSB, White can sac the exchange with hardly a thought: <21.Rxe4>
My line continuted 21...dxe4 22.Qg3 f6 23.Qb3+ Kh8 24.Ng6+ hxg6 25.Bxc7 Rxc7 (In the actual game, Black played 25...a5) 26.Qxb4 and White has a winning position. Black has no time for 26...hxg6 due to 27.Qxf8+ ***** |
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| Jul-26-13 | | Abdel Irada: <morfishine: There's an old saying about a White Knight on f5. With Knights on both e5 & f5 and the Black Queen indirectly threatened by the DSB, White can sac the exchange with hardly a thought> Agreed. Since the rook is under attack anyway, one would already tend to be alert for desperadoes, and in this case, removing the strong knight on e4 leaves White with unfettered access to the black kingside. One might otherwise consider 21. Ng6, angling to win the exchange, but with the bishop on b4 this is not convincing. ∞ |
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| Jul-26-13 | | Abdel Irada: <Nick46: Black blundered badly with moves 22 & 23. How is the problem-solver supposed to read the looser's mind in such cases?> You're not.
Our task is to find the best moves, not try to guess what was actually played. ∞ |
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| Jul-26-13 | | GrandMaesterPycelle: I went for 23. Nh6+, followed by Nef7+. Somewhat more flamboyant, but sadly less good than the game variation. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | newzild: <Nick46: Black blundered badly with moves 22 & 23. How is the problem-solver supposed to read the looser's mind in such cases?> I'm not sure what you mean by "blunder". Black only had two reasonable defences on move 22 - he could have played 22...f6 or 22...g6. Both of them lose by force, and it is not too difficult for an average to strong club player to analyse both variations to a win. In other words, it's not a matter of reading the loser's mind, but of analysing the tree of variations to a point in which White's advantage is clearly decisive. For what it's worth, 22...f6 was my main line. To me, it seemed that 22...g6 was more clearly losing. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | morfishine: <Abdel Irada> Yes, I looked briefly at 21.Ng6 & 21.Rc1. The hardest move for me to find was the swing back 23.Qb3+ |
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| Jul-26-13 | | Ray C: The final position leaves me thinking that I've missed something. 36. Rxd8 looked daft until I saw 37. Qh8#; but the obvious reply of 36. ...Rxd8 does away with that. What is White up to here? Real slick move, 24. Ng6+. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | Hongkonger: <The final position leaves me thinking that I've missed something. 36. Rxd8 looked daft until I saw 37. Qh8#; but the obvious reply of 36. ...Rxd8 does away with that. What is White up to here?> 37.Qe7 |
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| Jul-26-13 | | Marmot PFL: 21 Rxe4 de 22 Qg3 seems to win immediately. No way I can see to avoid mate without losing the queen. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | Abdel Irada: <morfishine: <Abdel Irada> Yes, I looked briefly at 21.Ng6 & 21.Rc1. The hardest move for me to find was the swing back 23.Qb3+> Good point.
I analyzed (main line) 21. Rxe4, dxe4 22. Qg3, f6 23. Nh6†, Kh8 24. Ng6†, hxg6 25. Bxc7, gxh6 26. Bd6, Bxd6 27. Qxd6  White has ♕ vs. ♗+♖, but Black's pawn structure is still fairly uncompromised. Far more convincing was Gheorghiu's zwischenzug 23. Qb3†!, which leaves White with ♕ vs. ♗+♗, and it does not appear that Black can squirm out of this, although 25. ...Bd2 might have left Black's queenside pawns rather less vulnerable. (One idea Black *can't* try is 25. ...Rxc7 26. Qxb4, gxf5? 27. Qxf8†  .) ∞ |
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| Jul-26-13 | | hedgeh0g: 21.Rxe4
Yawn. Back to the beach... |
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| Jul-26-13 | | kevin86: I saw the first move-but no further. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | Nick46: Thank you for your replies, Abdel Irada and newzild. When it comes to deep analysis I must confess to a strong dose of laziness and lethargy (and admiration for you good analysts). |
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| Jul-26-13 | | BOSTER: Don't leave your Queen-respect her, even with body-guard (rook), on the same line with opponent's bishop, even when many pieces between them.
This is the same like to leave your girlfriend , or young wife with best friend.
Don't idealize them. Don't be fool twice!
And now, when we finished with foul play, let's see what we have in the <puzzle>.
21.Nh6+(if Kh8 22.N5f7+ Qxf7 23.Nxf7+ Rxf7 24.Rxe4 dxe4 25.Qb3 and white is better), if gxh6 22.Rxe4 dxe4 23.Qg3+ Kh8 24.Ng6+ hxg6 25.Bxc7 white is better. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | galdur: Nice tactics. Didn´t spot it but it´s only mopping-up after 23.Qb3 check. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | patcheck: Material is equal and the first two moves seem obvious :
21. Rxe4 dxe4 22. Qg3 threatening mate with only two options for black : 22. … g6 and 22. ... f6. A) 22. … g6 23. Nxg6
A1) 23. … Qxf4 24. Nxf4+ Kh8 25. Qg7#
A2) 23. … Qe5 24. Nxe5+ followed by 26. Qg7#
A3) Queen moves in any other square : 24. Ne7++ followed by Qg7# A4) 23. … hxg6 24. Bxc7 Rxc7 (what else) 25. Qxc7 and white wins : A4a) 25. … gxf5 26. Qxb7 and white has a decisive advantage (queen + rook + pawn versus rook + bishop) A4b) White bishop moves and white stay with queen + rook + knight + pawn versus rook + two bishops, for instance playing 27. Ne7+ or 27. a3. A5) 23. … fxg6 24. Bxc7 Rxf5 [better than 24. … Rxc7 25. Qxc7 Rxf5 (probably better than gxf5) 26. Qxb7 and white has a huge advantage (queen + rook + pawn versus rook and bishop) 25. Be5 with a certain advantage but which doesn’t seem so easy to convert in a win : queen + rook + bishop + pawn / two rooks and two bishops with activity (white could also try 25. Qb3+ but after 25. … Bd5 26. Qxb4 Rxc7 this line seems better for black who activated his white bishop). So, in this A line, white reaches a certain advantage after : 21. Rxe4 dxe4 22. Qg3 g6 23. Nxg6 fxg6 24. Bxc7 Rxf5 25. Be5 (queen + rook + bishop + pawn / two rooks and two bishops with activity). So they may be a better continuation for white (although I checked for instance 23. Ng4 but didn’t see a win for white after 23. … Qd8 24. Nh6+ Kh8 25. Be5 f6) B) 22. … f6 23. Qb3+ Kh8 24. Ng6+ hxg6 25. Bxc7 gxf5 26. Qxb4 Rxc7 (leads to the same position 25. Rxc7 Qxb4 26. gxf5) and white is better (queen + rook + pawn against two rooks and a bishop) but, as said in the A line they may have a stronger continuation for white.
Time to check |
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| Jul-26-13 | | patcheck: It seems my analysis was right today and my statement of the line too : it is not an easy win after all. |
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| Jul-26-13 | | patcheck: I checked quickly with Fritz 12 which recomends (after a few seconds): 21. Rxe4 f6 and not immediately 21. ... dxe4 |
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| Jul-26-13 | | James D Flynn: Material is equal but White’s Ns are aggressively placed near the castled Black K, whereas Black’s B on b7 is hemmed in by his own pawns. Both sides appear to be threatening to win the exchange: Black by Bxe1 on his next move, White by Ng6 simultaneously attacking the Black Q and the R on f8. Is Black’s threat real? Supposing White plays 21.Kh2 leaving the f2 pawn en prise? Then 21….Bxe1 22.Ng6 threatens not only to win the Q but also N5e7+ and if the Q moves off the 7th rank that check is mate. However after 21.Kh2 Black can take the f2 pawn attacking the White Q. 21.Kh2 Nxf2 22.Qg3 threatening mate on g7 and attacking the N on f2 as well as 23.Nh6+ Kh8 24.Ng6+winning the Black Q . Since the threat of Bxe1 is illusory White could also consider 21.a3 forcing the B to make a decision: 21.a3 Bxe1 22.Ng6 Bxf2+ 23.Kh2 fxg6 24.Bxc7 Rxc7(now Black has R.B, and pawn for his Q and the attacked N doesn’t have many squares) 25.Nd4 or Ne3(if Nd6 Bg3+ 26.Kg8 Bxd6 with R,B,N, and pawn for his Q which should be enough to win the endgame) Bg3+ 26.Kg1 Bf2+ with at least a perpetual.
Given that Bxe1 is not an empty threat 21.Rxe4 comes into consideration.:
21.Rxe4 dxe4 22.Qg3 f6(if g6 23.Nxg6 fxg6(else Nge7+ and mate on g7) 24.Bxc7 and White has won a Q for a R) 23.Ng6(if Nh6+ Kh8 24.Ng6+ hxg6 25.Bxc7 gxh6 and White has won Q for R and N and remains with Q, R,and B versus 2Rs,, and 2Bs which is not an overwhelming material advantage but useful after 26,Bd6forces the exchange of Black square Bs). |
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| Jul-26-13 | | Zhbugnoimt: My line was 21.a3 and if 21...Bd6 then 22. Nxd6 and 23.Ng6 |
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| Jul-26-13 | | jheiner: As mentioned, I got the main line up to move 23. but I chose 23.Rc1. Here's the position, please kibitz:
click for larger view |
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Kibitzing
sac: 21.Rxe4