chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Vladimir Kramnik vs Levon Aronian
Kramnik - Aronian Rapid Match (2007) (rapid), Yerevan ARM, rd 5, May-06
Catalan Opening: General (E00)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 90 more Kramnik/Aronian games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Some games have annotation. These are denoted in the game list with the icon.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: Maybe there is a wrinkle to this puzzle that we've all missed so far, namely that the text also wins. We just need to find the right continuation.

After 39 Kxf6 Kg8 40 Kg6 Kf8 how about 41 Kh7!, below, (threatening 42 Rf7#).


click for larger view

Black has to give up his rook to stop the mate, so after 41... Rxd6 42 Rxd6 white is ahead in material.


click for larger view

Now, if 42...c2, after 43 Rc6 c1Q 44 Rxc1 Nxc1, it should be a winning position for white, because of all of those connected passed pawns.


click for larger view

Aug-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <Jimfromprovidence> Funnily enough, that was the line that I had picked this morning, but didn't post because the "solution" was so much more elegant.

Maybe I shouldn't have kicked myself quite so hard?

Aug-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: A do much 6.Nd2 like, taking black out of book. Nothing about white's play is obvious? Donkey kick knight buck a rude bishop it take rook saddling black has all pieces back rank. Na in Nxa8 or a novel xd5 approach. Is Nimzovichien Kramnik is doges chiefly b4 Fisher-esque controlling d4 space. Key Rxf7+ announces a mate facade Kxf6 of a kin mark tie man off both are at sixes and draw.
Aug-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  doubledrooks: I saw that 39. Rf7+ Kg8 40. Re7 Rc8 41. Nxc8 wins.
Aug-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  ZUGZWANG67: W is a pawn up and B has a dangerous one at c3, which, when other things equal, should at least win material. But the WK is strong and W's pieces collaborate in the most perfect manner. What remains is to determine if this is a win or a draw; since yesterday's mess, I'm suspicious.

And yes, this is a win: 39.Rf7+! Kg8 40.Re7 and 41.Re8+ mate whatever B replies on his 40th move.

At first I was trying to mate but struggled a bit and then, because of what happened yesterday, began to look for a way to draw, which of course can be accomplished. But not being able to admit that there was no win I decided to look again for mate. All of sudden the solution sprung. I'm a little desapointed though: I took too long and almost missed it.

Time to check.

----------

Gosh! the "GM-missed-it-festival"!

Let's see other's comment.

Aug-13-10  David2009: Kramnik vs Aronian, 2007 White 39?

39 Rf7+ Kg8 40 Re7+ threatens Re8 mate which cannot be prevented except by 40...Rc8 41 Nxc8 Kf8 42 Rc7 and stops the c Pawn. Visually hard to spot. 39 Rf7+ Kg8 40 Nf5 also threatens mate but loses to Ne5+ 41 fxe5 fxe5+ and Black wins. Time to check:
====
Yes. Crafty End Game trainer check of the puzzle position:


click for larger view

http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... You are white, drag and drop the move you want to make.

Aug-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  ZUGZWANG67: <<4gambit:> Failed again... :( and when i saw the answer i thought "oh..it was so easy!">

I think that the difficuty comes from the necessity to assess other factors, like here, the c3-pawn, the attack on the WN, the possibility of a check either by means of discovery or capture of the WN, etc...


click for larger view

There we go.

XD!!!

Aug-13-10  David2009: <Jim>,<gofer> Some most interesting posts. <Jim>, with respect your line only draws: you need <gofer>'s brilliant intermediary check 43 Rf6+!! to win and only then 44 Rc6.

With your line, Black can defend, reaching


click for larger view

White (to play) has nothing better than 48.Kxd5 Nxe3+ 49.Ke6 Nf1 50.g4 Nxh2 draw. To win, you need <gofer>'s trick of Rf6+ and a subsequent Kg7 to promote the h Pawn.

<gofer>: congratulations on finding the win - since when is a win <a big fat zero>?

A Crafty link is in my earlier post Kramnik vs Aronian, 2007

Aug-13-10  MiCrooks: Interesetingly, after g4 it is Kramnik who should have lost! Instead of settling for a perpetual due to fear of g5 g6+ Rh8++ Black has a way to snivel out of it and Queen his c-pawn!

After 44. Kf7 instead of Rc7+ Black should play c2!! Now g5 Rc7+ Kf6 (otherwise just Queens as White needs to maintain threat of g6+) and now Rg7!! and the Queen is coming.

There are still tricks to find and I am guessing Aronian saw the move that Kramnik had missed and felt lucky and happy to escape with a draw and was in no mood to analyze all the way through them.

White's next f5 renews the threat of g6+ but gives up on mating with it as the pawn on f4 was controling the key square g5. Still now the threat is to march it in for a Queen of his own.

But with Nd7+ Black kicks the King away from the pawns allowing Black to Queen. Ke6 c1(Q) and as menacing as the pawns look White has nothing.

g6+ Kh6 Nf7 and Black could just walk out with Kh5 or play the dangerous looking Rxf7 where Black can keep the pawn from ever advancing that last square gxf7 Nc5+! If White takes the pawn Black checks and picks up the Rook stopping the pawn in the process. If White tries to wriggle Black wins the pawn through a series of checks. Kd6 Ne4+ Kd7 (Ke5 Qc7+; Ke7 Qc5+) Nf6 Kd6 Qa3+ the nimble knight has finally reached the right square. Kc6 Qa6+ (Ke6 Qxe3! => Kxf6 Qg5+) Kc7 Qa7+ => Qxf7.

So both Grandmasters missed wins. Of course we don't know what the position of their flags were either since this was a rapid match. And no one is going to analyze that all the way out in blitz. Better the safe draw...

Aug-13-10  Eisenheim: To make up for my blazing blunder yesterday, I went to central park and was well ahead in position in game 1 and then blundered it away under time problems - but regained my composure to win games 2 and 3. For some reason this puzzle today came quickly and easily to me, and I first eliminated the complexities of the black knight delivering check and then figured a crisp path to victory is to jettison my own knight (if needed) to have the rook marshall the king into a mate-ripe position.
Aug-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <David2009> <Jim>, <with respect your line only draws: you need <gofer>'s brilliant intermediary check 43 Rf6+!! to win and only then 44 Rc6.>

I posted a different line than <gofer>.

He varied from the text beginning with move 39. I changed beginning with move 41. Since the f pawn is captured right away in my line, there is no need to check on f6 later.

We end up with the same position I posted earlier, below, except his line has the black king on e7, not f8.


click for larger view

Aug-13-10  ounos: Oh well.

Embarrassing.

In my opinion, moves 38, 39 and 40 should be banned from chess, yes, altogether. After you have played your 37th move, you will write your next move down as the 41st one.

Just a small suggestion to tremendously increase global chess quality.

Aug-13-10  CHESSTTCAMPS: A couple of notes to make after I worked out with the Crafty endgame trainer set up by <David2009>.

First of all, in line A of my initial post < 40... Ne5+ 41.fxe5 Rc8 (otherwise 42.Re8#) 42.Nxc8 Kf8 43.Re6...> the quick mate is disrupted by a knight move, but white still wins of course.

Second, I believe that in fact the 3rd position diagrammed by <Jimfromprovidence> is in fact won with best play by white. (Nice discovery Jim!) In my first two attempts against Crafty, I made the same mistake as <David2009>: I moved the WK towards black's d-pawn and ended with a draw. On the 3rd attempt, I noticed that the WK controls a queening square, so the correct plan is to push the passed g-pawn. Starting from Jim's 3rd diagram, I managed to win this (without consulting any endgame books) as follows:

45.g4! d4 46.ed Ne2 47.g5 Nxd4 48.g6 Nf5 49.h4 Ng7 50.Kh8 Nh5 51.f5 Nf6 52.g7+ Kf7 53.h5 Ng8 reaching the following position that might make a nice Monday/Tuesday puzzle:


click for larger view

I'll leave the rest to others to find the solution and decide if Crafty played the best defense available. I conclude that 39.Kxf6 should also be a winning move with best play.

Aug-13-10  JG27Pyth: Arrgh... I played Rf7+ with the Nf5 continuation, missing Black's defensive resource in that line... and just when i was about to complain about it being too easy for a friday, too!
Aug-13-10  ounos: <CHESSTTCAMPS> are you sure the diagram is a win? I don't see anything. 54. f6 Nh6 55. Kh7 Ng8. Or 54. h6 Nxh6. Or 54. Kh7 Nf6+ 55. Kh6 Ng8+ 56. Kg5 Kxg7. Hmm. Barely any legal moves are left.
Aug-13-10  YouRang: I went with 39.Kh7 threatening Rf7#, and thus forcing 39...Rxd6 40.Rxd6 winning the exchange.

I noticed, however, that black can follow with a promotion threat 40...c2 41.Rc6 c1=Q 42.Rxc1 Nxc1 and it's kind of questionable whether white's pawns can win.

However, I noticed a big improvement: Instead of the immediate 41.Rc6, we can play 41.Rxf6+! Ke7, which not only eats a pawn with check, but it forces the black king away from the h-file , making our promotion chances much better [diagram]


click for larger view

It continues: 42.Rc6 c1=Q 43.Rxc1 Nxc1 44.Kg7! [diagram]


click for larger view

and then either or h-pawn or our f-pawn sails to promotion.

Aug-13-10  suvhasis: Yes - I do have a comment !
I notice that several others besides myself have reached the same conclusion for at least the starting move. It is an easy win with
39. Rf7+ Kg8; 40. Nf5 (to prevent black from playing 40. ... f5 and also threatening 41. ... Nh6+; 41. Kh8 Rf8#)

Black has no defence at all. The check with the knight 40.... Ne5+ is useless.

This is a WON game for white. I do not see how it is a draw.

Aug-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: 39.Rf7+ Kg8 40.Re7... 1-0
Aug-13-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <suvhasis: Yes - I do have a comment ! I notice that several others besides myself have reached the same conclusion for at least the starting move. It is an easy win with 39. Rf7+ Kg8; 40. Nf5 (to prevent black from playing 40. ... f5 and also threatening 41. ... Nh6+; 41. Kh8 Rf8#)>

39.Rf7+ Kg8 <40.Nf5?? Ne5+... 0-1>. E.g., ...41.fxe5 fxe5+ 42.Rf6 Rxf6 43.Kxf6 c2... 0-1

Aug-13-10  suvhasis: At Gypsy: 39.Rf7+ Kg8 <40.Nf5?? Ne5+... 0-1>. E.g., ...41.fxe5 fxe5+ 42.Rf6 Rxf6 43.Kxf6 c2... 0-1

Gypsy - Indeed you are correct. I did not see 43.... c2

Aug-13-10  M.Hassan: "Difficult" White to move 39.? and white is a pawn up. Black has a passed pawn that is close to Queening but Black King is exposed to danger as well, so white can use any opportunity that he can get, like: 39.Kxf6
If c pawn advances to c2, Black will be checkmate by Rook moving to d8#.Obviously, Black reads this plan and will go: 39.........Kg8
40.Kg6 Kf8
41.Kg6 Kf8
And I can not see a win in this game.
Let's check see what has actually been played
Aug-13-10  boyhgst: Hello, White to win! sure move
39.Rf7+
Aug-13-10  CHESSTTCAMPS: <ounos: <CHESSTTCAMPS> are you sure the diagram is a win? I don't see anything. 54. f6 Nh6 55. Kh7 Ng8...>

Yes - continue your first line with 56.h6.

Aug-14-10  ounos: <CHESSTTCAMPS: <ounos: <CHESSTTCAMPS> are you sure the diagram is a win? I don't see anything. 54. f6 Nh6 55. Kh7 Ng8...> Yes - continue your first line with 56.h6.> Thanks, nice one. Strange I stopped on 55 - probably because white was giving pawns with check and being next to self-suffocation :)
Aug-14-10  David2009: <CHESSTTCAMPS: [snip] in fact the 3rd position diagrammed by <Jimfromprovidence> is in fact won with best play by white. (Nice discovery Jim!) [snip] the WK controls a queening square, so the correct plan is to push the passed g-pawn.>

Brilliant stuff! It shows how careful I need to be to avoid dogmatic statements like <Jim, with respect your line only draws> (Kramnik vs Aronian, 2007).

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 4)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: RAPID. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
Catalan Opening: General
from marwanredman123's favorite games 2 by marwanredman123
39.? (Friday, August 13)
from Puzzle of the Day 2010 by Phony Benoni
39.? (August 13, 2010)
from Friday Puzzles, 2004-2010 by Phony Benoni
39.? (Friday, August 13)
from POTD Catalan by takchess

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC