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William G Doubleday vs Sergey Kudrin
Ontario Open (2004), Brantford, rd 1, May-22
Gruenfeld Defense: Three Knights Variation. Hungarian Attack (D92)  ·  0-1



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-03-12  LoveThatJoker: <newzild> Wow! I a find a win in the line that you chose and that you yourself could not find the correct mating attack to; the line that a fellow kibitzer was hounding you about to prove as a win and you're complaining about the fact that I referred to your and SP77's posts as a racket - which is a 50's word for 'noise' and which is now used so as to bring a certain levity to things. Next time consider a simple 'Good job, Joker' or 'Nice analysis' or something of that ilk as ultimately I proved that 29...Qe3+ actually leads to a forced mate.

<Memethecat> "(or not)"!! I wonder if the player of the White pieces secretely enjoyed Black penetrating into his camp like that. Into his savage garden. ;)

<Phony Benoni> Thanks for the Steinitz puzzle. I'm a big fan of Stenitz and I studied this game a couple of years ago. It's a classic finish for sure!


Feb-03-12  frogbert: <Pretty obvious when you know there is a winning combination there>

that's a bit how i feel about puzzles like this: the destruction sacrifice (including the forced continuation) doesn't really make this a difficult puzzle (for my level, anyway), since the first thing you try <knowing> there is something in the position is the h2-sacrifice. and here the following lines are very straightforward too - the only deviating point is whether white tries Bg4 or Kf3 after Qg5+ (as the capture fxe5 is forced like his first two moves). and the side-line 29. Bg4 Qe3+ 30. Bf3 (Rf3 Bxe5 mate) Bxe5+ 31. Kg4 f5 mate is even easier to spot than the main-line finish. the only "semi-hard" thing to see here, is the silent move Qe7 - and possibly realizing that Rh8+ must be played first so that white's g-pawn can't be used effectively in the defence.

i think what makes a puzzle harder is the existence of <several> seemingly strong first moves - i.e. having multiple ideas present in the position. of course, for anyone having a problem visualizing 5-6 moves ahead no matter how forced the line is, today's puzzle might be considered "difficult", but at expert level i assume most players don't have a problem with the visualization part.

is it a "problem" that potd's are "wrongly" classified? maybe not. but to me it seems like the classification more than once "errs" on mixing up "difficulty of spotting the idea" with "difficulty of calculating the solution". or rather, that it somewhat consistently assumes that calculating a longer, forced line is "hard" while being unable to differentiate very well between hard to spot and easy to spot ideas. while the latter obviously is individual to some degree (and is part of what one trains by solving puzzles), i'd be curious to learn a little more about the process used to categorize the puzzles.

does anyone know if there's an extended group of people helping with the classifications? of course it's understandable that only very limited time can be spent on that work if it's just one more thing that the few people running must do entirely on their own.

Premium Chessgames Member
  whittaker: <The good news is, Crafty End Game Trainer (reborn as Crafty Endgame Simulator, Crafty ES) is back!>

Is there any way to make it Black to move on this thing?

Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: The material is even.

White threatens 26.fxe5 and 26.Nxc5.

The open h-file and the number of pieces aiming at the white castle call for 25... Rxh2+ 26.Kxh2 Rh2+ 27.Kg3 Qe7, threatening mate in one:

A) 28.fxe5 Qg5+

A.1) 29.Bg4 Qe3+

A.1.a) 30.Rf3 Bxe5#.

A.1.b) 30.Bf3 Bxe5+ 31.Kg4 f5#.

A.2) 29.Kf3 Qf5+

A.2.a) 30.Ke2 Qe4+ 31.Kd2 Qe3#.

A.2.b) 30.Kg3 Bxe5+ 31.Rf4 Qxf4#.

B) 28.Rh1 Rxh1 doesn't seem to solve anything for White.

Feb-03-12  LoveThatJoker: <SP77> My pleasure, man. You're initial idea of ...Rh5! caught my eye and I just felt like there had to be something afterwards there so as to lead to a win. That's when I found the ...Kh6 idea.

Thank you for the kind appreciation of my analysis.



Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: i first looked at trapping the queen,but found no way to poison her escape square at e2-Then I checked the rook sac at h2-white's king does have an escape to g3,but is VERY vunerable there. So Rxh2+ is clearly a good gamble.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: possible pun:Kudrin strikes out Doubleday.
Feb-03-12  James D Flynn: I really like morfishline's idea 26...5. I found it superbly counter intuitive. What if White doesn't take on e5? Say 27.Rcf2 g5xf4+ 28.Rxf4 Ng6 and Black can pile up on the pinned R on f4 and the White K is quickly mated if it tries to move.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <Memethecat> Couldn't really comment on houdini as I've never used it. Looking back over my multiple Fritz's it seems that one of the reasons I keep changing is to keep up with the new operating systems that microsoft likes to inflict on us every few years. Then there's the new training functions like the video thingie that was introduced around Fritz 10. Now there's a new "Let's check" feature in version 13 which claims to generate an internet database of positions and evaluations...

<BOSTER> has a little hobby of disagreeing with me whenever he can. Most of the time I just ignore it. It's not really worthy of a comment and everyone needs a hobby, I suppose. But every now and again it gets so silly that I can't resist responding in kind. As you say, a little bit of history.

Feb-03-12  gofer: White has lost control of the a7-g1 diagonal and as such its king is in a mating net. Black simply needs to blast through the remaining defenses with Rxh2+, but really black would like to follow up with Qh4# rather than Ng4+ or Rh8+, but the DSB is in such a good position that white is fighting for its life!

<25 ... Rxh2+>
<26 Kxh2 Rh8+>
<27 Kg3 Qd8/Qe7>

The mating net is complete. Black threatens Qh4#. Black must find an escape square for the king as there are no checks available...

<28 fxe5 Qg5+!>

The funniest part of the next continuation is that white starts to entomb his own king, as his king cannot run away! 29 Kf6 Qe3+ 30 Kg5 Bxe5 mating with either Qg3# or f5+ mating!

<29 Bg4 Qe3+>

30 Rf3 Bxe5#

<30 Bf3 Bxe5+>
<31 Kg4 f5#!>

A very nice finish indeed!

Feb-03-12  gofer: <29 Kf6 Qe3+ 30 Kg5 Bxe5 mating with either Qg3# or f5+ mating!>

I did see <31 Rxf7+>, but I didn't analyse it... ...just plain old lazy I suppose!

Feb-03-12  jackpawn: I found the line most others found: <29 Kf6 Qe3+ 30 Kg5 Bxe5 mating with either Qg3# or f5+ mating!>. What is strange to me is that we all found 29 .. Qe3+, but not the game text of 29 ..Qf5+. Now why is that? I would like to think in a game that once I reached that point I would find the cleaner move of 29 ... Qf5+. Maybe that's what Kudrin did too.
Feb-03-12  LoveThatJoker: <jackpawn> I found the text move.


Feb-03-12  jackpawn: <LoveThatJoke> chuckle. Okay, most of us found 29 .. Qe3+. :)
Feb-03-12  LoveThatJoker: <jackpawn> It's LoveThatJoker.


Feb-03-12  SuperPatzer77: <<jackpawn> It's LoveThatJoker.>

<JackPawn> Batman's oldest nemesis is Joker. LOL. I'm rooting for Batman. <LoveThatJoker> is rooting for Joker. LOL LOL.

Maybe <LoveThatJoker> likes to use two playing cards - Jokers. He sure as heck can take me to the cleaners. LOL LOL.


Feb-03-12  squaresquat: you people are thieves and cheats. it's a sad thing to be so lacking in virtue. You charged me. I go to Java and punch buttons. you people fence me out because of my verbal mastery and your rhetorical ineptitude.
Feb-03-12  ChessNewbie55: too easy for a friday.
Feb-03-12  1stboard: Looks like white should have played Qxb6 on move 20. Funny White did not ( swap Queens )considering he tried to swap queens a few times up to that move and black was avoiding.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: If I were playing in a casual game, I would play 25...Ng4.
Feb-03-12  Patriot: White threatens 26.fxe5.

Given the white king's lack of mobility, I want to play 25...Rxh2+:

25...Rxh2+ 26.Kxh2 Rh8+ 27.Kg3 Qe7 28.fxe5 Qg5+

A) 29.Kf3 Qf5+ 30.Ke2 Qe4+ (30.Kg3 Bxe5+ 31.Rf4 Qxf4#) 31.Kd2 Qe3#

B) 29.Bg4 Qe3+ 30.Bf3 Bxe5+ (30.Rf3 Bxe5#) 31.Kg4 Qf4#

I think this is it. I had a really tough time visualizing this.

Premium Chessgames Member
  paulalbert: Like many others, I visualized to Qe3ch, but Sergei's Qf5ch obviously cleaner and more direct, so I'll give myself only partial credit.
Feb-03-12  CHESSTTCAMPS: In this opposite-colored bishop middle game, material is even, but white has too much force offside on the queen-side,leaving a lightly defended king that faces a semi-open h-file for black. White threatens fxe5 and probably expects a knight retreat, but the knight is nicely positioned to assist a lethal attack. I had this pretty fast, I thought, but then I found a hole in my original analysis and had to come back later to find the right line.

25... Rxh2+!!

Black's control of the dark squares leaves the WK little room to run. Nonetheless, this needs to be calculated carefully from the puzzle position.

26.Kxh2 Ra1+ and now

A) 27.Kg3 Qe7 (threatening Qh4#) 28.fxe5 Qg5+! (wrong is Qh4+? 29.Kf3 Qh5+ 30.Ke4! Qxe5+ 31.Kd3 holds!) 29.Bg4 Qe3+ 30.Bf3 (Rf3 Bxe5#!) Bxe5+ 31.Kg4 f5#!

A.1) 28.Rh1 Rxh1 29.fxe5 Qg5+ 30.Bg4 Qe3+ is similar to main line.

A.2) 29.Kf3 Qe3+ 30.Kg4 Qe4+! 31.Kg3 (Rf4 Bxe5!! 32.g3 f5+ forces mate) Bxe5+ 32.Kf2 Bd4+ 33.Kg3 Qe3+ 34.Rf3 (or Bf3) Be5+ 35.Kg4 f5#!

B) 27.Bh5 Rxh5+ 28.Kg3 Qe7 29.fxe5 Qg5+ 30.Kf3 Qe3+ 31.Rf3 (Kg4 Rg5+) Bxe5+ 32.Kg4 f5+ 33.Rxf5 exf5#

Lesson learned: sometimes, the biggest problem in analysis is not the visualization, it's getting a fixed idea in your head, such as the parenthesized note at black's move 28 in line A.

Feb-03-12  CHESSTTCAMPS: I missed the much simpler 29... Qf5+ of the game.
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: I picking up <Once> left off delicate brave in stall h8 allez

analogy it a quick dollar sandwich h2 o good stall essay these

nuts like sitting in fence stedfast dib I as enact wooh Top Cat

yeah ooh man choice raw footage really Doubleday Kudrin the wall

h2 o dear carrier and yes say praxis it one in a million bady

blow down wrestling his conscience pinch h2 a den prowling Benny

the Ball wreking takes h2 luft leg purp in store leash rep us

myth 8+ the get going leg king choo choo again gun memory dont

quibble queene7 my liegent officer in bless it ar thunder brook

brain f4xe5 qg5+ straight in away it fancy an to kf3 like it hang

spooks hark old at eggplant it making e2 black win.

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