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Later Kibitzing> |
| Nov-04-09 | | Patriot: I looked at this late last night and figured 29.Bf4 (a deflection--29...Qxf4?? 30.Qf7#). A) 29...Qd7 30.Bd6+ Qxd6 31.Qf7#
B) 29...Qe7 30.Bd6  (similar to A)
But I didn't really look much further and didn't consider 29...Qc4 or the silly looking 29...Ne5 so I won't accept a full point. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | dzechiel: <agb2002: <CHESSTTCAMPS> <dzechiel> You're not alone. I'm sure that we would have seen a trivial move like 29... Qc4 on the board. The only explanation I can find is that using the diagram instead of a decent board is definitely bad practice. What are your impressions?> I put it down to sloppiness and carelessness on my part. I should have seen that the queen could dodge the bishop and block the white queen's checkmate, but I wasn't thorough. However, I would like to say that, if my opponent made that move in a game I would have found the correct continuation. |
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Nov-04-09
 | | chrisowen: Black is not miles from a mate himself so it seems white gets roped into interjecting the bishop which is full of promisse. Hes subsequently pulled up by his bootstraps as Qc4 locks down the queenside but doesnt allow for Rc1/Bd6+ combination if queen takes. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | Halldor: My main line was: 29 Bf4 Qc4 30 Qa3+ Kg8 31 Rc1, and Black is helpless. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | JG27Pyth: Add me to the "blind to the Qc4 defense club" -- why is that a difficult resource to spot? Oh well... After seeing Qc4 I tried to finish and and found the Rc1, Bd6+ check idea, but I had the move order wrong, with Bd6+ first... this allows the fancy cross pin on the Queen (and I think it is winning,) but the text move order is stronger :( |
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| Nov-04-09 | | Patriot: <<JG27Pyth>: Add me to the "blind to the Qc4 defense club" -- why is that a difficult resource to spot? Oh well...> Maybe we're thinking "The queen must stay on the 7th rank to prevent mate", so we become biased against anything else. Qc4 "breaks" that principle. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | YouRang: Similar to yesterday's puzzle, we see that Qf7# is being prevented only by the black queen, making that queen an obvious deflection target. My first thought was 29.Rc1, and I actually went through several lines before I noticed that black had 29...Qxh2#! But black's threat on h2 brought another idea to mind: <29.Bf4!>, blocking the mate threat with deflection counter-attack. Black cannot block it effectively (e.g. 29...Ne5? 30.Bxe5) Counter-attack doesn't work (29...Bc4? 30.Qb4+ Qe7 31.Bd6) Horizontal moves (to maintain guard of f7) lose to 30.Bd6+ ~# Blocking with the queen fails: 29...Qc5 30.Qa3+ Kg8 (if 30...Rc5 then 31.Bd6+ ) 31.Rc1 wins the queen (e.g. 31...Qxc1+ 32.Rxc1 Rxc1+ 33.Qxc1 and black can do nothing to stop mate. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | Eisenheim: <corbinamma> - HA!!!!!! excellent point. I really stunk this one up. My streak has ended. two lessons to be learned. one always look to see your opponets attack as well. two, don't try to rush chess too much (as I was typing my observations while about to board a plane) still, no excuse. I am wrong. And I blundered badly. This will make up for my accidental simul victory against a 2500 last weekend. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | zanshin: <Antonius Blok: <zanshin> I didn't understand your diagram !! How can the black Queen found herself in c4 after 29... Bc6 ?> My mistake. I thought you meant <30...Bc6> - that explains a lot! ;-) Still <29...Bd6+> leads to mate. 
click for larger view |
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| Nov-04-09 | | TheaN: Wednesday 4 November 2009
<29.?>
Target: 2:10;000
Taken: 5:16;746
Triple Bogey (-3m+)
Material: Black up, ♙
Candidates: a whole lot all with the same theme, <[Bf4]> -ML-
Although I can derange by explaining my slow solving or my load of candidates before finding the key move, the process to it might be more useful. We clearly see a mate in one possibility for White, with Qf7‡. Black has such immediate threat Qxh2‡. I noticed this one much later. So at first I looked at take-out-the-defender principles by means of Rc1 or Bd8. Then I spotted the Black mate, and suddenly the candidates drop. e5, although probably good for White, is not forcing enough, and Qf7† is of no use. Then, only the key move remains. If that happens, it has to be the winning move: <29.Bf4!> a move that does two things: it blocks the mate on h2, as well as attacking a vital defending piece of Black. As such, Black may not take: /A\
<29....Qxf4 30.Qf7‡ 1-0> or in any other way lose control of f7. Safe squares along the seventh rank are scarce, and all lose. /B\
<29....Qd7 30.Bd6† Qxd6/Qe7 31.Qf7‡ 1-0> which uses the same take-out-the-defender principle as the key move. e7 is not advised either. /C\
<29....Qe7 30.Bd6 > once again, Black cannot take due to Qf7‡, and will lose at least his Queen, but probably get mated soon after. So, can he block in such a way to avoid major material loss? Not with the Bishop. /D\
<29....Bc4> at first it seems a reasonable try, but now, White will not be as interested in the Black King at this point as before. The Black Queen is en prise, and White only wants a zwischenzug to capture it. <30.Qb5†> now Black would be willing to safe his Queen, and why not try to interpose with it? They all lead to the same move and a win. <30....Qc5 31.Bd6† > and it's either a double skewer or a pin, 30....Qe7 31.Bd6 , that wins the game. So, the only reasonable move for Black is to interpose with the Queen? That leads to the cream de la cream of the puzzle. /E\
<29....Qc4> we've seen this many times in CG puzzles. At this point, Black seems to be holding with any of the combinations of above in mind. No Black Queen en prise, no pins, no skewers. Still, this loses completely forced. Forcing moves usually work: <30.Bd6† Kg8> and this position justifies the entire positioning of the White pieces: <31.Rc1! > and Black is down and out on account of 31....Qxb3 32.Rxc8† Be8 33.Rxe8‡ 1-0, and the Knight check, as in any point in the puzzle, is useless. It's nice to see that for any other move, White doesn't even need his Rooks. Time to check what Black tried. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | TheaN: 3/3
Is it just me, or is 30.Bd6† Kg8 31.Rc1 a bit more forcing than 30.Rc1 first? All in all, both work :P. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | Patriot: <<TheaN>: Is it just me, or is 30.Bd6† Kg8 31.Rc1 a bit more forcing than 30.Rc1 first?> I agree, it is more forcing. Conceivably, although losing after 30.Rc1, black could play 30...Qxc1+. After your line, 31...Qxc1+ is illegal since the queen is pinned! |
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| Nov-04-09 | | Marmot PFL: I found the win, but reversed white's 30th and 31st moves. This also wins, but the game line is better as in my line black can play 31...Nf2+ 32 Kg1 Nxe4 attacking d6 and last a bit longer than in the game. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | gofer: Ironically, had I not noticed that Black is threatening Qxh2#,
and because of that threat, that really 29 Bf4 is the only logical starting point, then I don't think I would have got this for a
very long time!
:-)
29 Bf4
29 ... Qxf4 30 Qf7#
29 ... Qd7 30 Bd6+ Qxd6 31 Qf7#
Option 1
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29 ... Qe7 30 Bd6 winning the queen
Option 2
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29 ... Qc4
30 Rc1!
30 ... Qxc1+ 31 Rxc1 winning
30 ... Qf1+ 31 Rxf1 winning
30 ... Qxb3 31 Bd6+ Kg8 32 Rxc8#
Time to check... |
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| Nov-04-09 | | MaxxLange: <Antonius Blok> I totally missed that too; a poster a little above me had mentioned it. D'oh! That's why I get an F- for today, I didn't even ask if Black had a threat, which is supposed to be like the first thing you do when you start to analyze. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | lzromeu: <RC1>
Great questions sometimes has simple answers.
Doesn't matter how stupid you are. You are never alone. lol.
WHAT a blunder!!!
Thanks a lot. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | MaxxLange: Playing around this on the computer, it's interesting that, while 29 Bf4! Qc4 30 Bd6+ Kg8 31 Rc1 is still totally winning, 30 Rc1 is in fact much better. This is because Black has time for ...Nf2+ and ...Nxe4. If he plays this in the game variation, instead of 30...Qxb3?, who cares. But, in the 30 Bd6+ line, his Ne4 is attacking the Bd6, giving him some counterplay: 
click for larger view |
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| Nov-04-09 | | A Karpov Fan: got it, bring on Tal-M ;-0 |
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| Nov-04-09 | | YoungEd: I thought I was clever because I found ♗f4 right away, noting that ♗d6 would win if Black kept the ♕ on the 7th rank. But I never considered the ♕c4 attempt nor the sweet ♖c1. I get Tuesday credit on a Wednesday. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | WhiteRook48: I got 29 Bf4 but not 30 Rc1 |
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Nov-04-09
 | | stoy: Nenarokov once won a match from A. A. Alekhine which the latter omitted from his record in a book of his collected games! |
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| Nov-04-09 | | JG27Pyth: Patriot<Maybe we're thinking "The queen must stay on the 7th rank to prevent mate", so we become biased against anything else. Qc4 "breaks" that principle.> I think you've hit upon the correct explanation! I kept telling myself "if only I can deflect the Queen..." so naturally I didn't spot the other defensive square the Queen had... something to look out for in the future. |
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| Nov-04-09 | | DarthStapler: I considered the first move but dismissed it because of Qd7, I didn't see the Bd6+ idea |
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| Nov-04-09 | | King.Arthur.Brazil: Hi. I'll not take your time. I found Bf4 and saw also Bd6+, but I didn't think about the answer Qc4. But still I find Tc1, but to be honest, I'd play Sd6+ first then Tc1. When I checked I saw that there's a inverted order, but I guess, in this position, it doesn't make difference. So I fill glad first time to find all the combination here. |
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Nov-05-09
 | | FSR: <stoy: Nenarokov once won a match from A. A. Alekhine which the latter omitted from his record in a book of his collected games!> I always liked the game where he inflicted quadrupled pawns on Alekhine: Alekhine vs Nenarokov, 1907 |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 30.Rc1