Look at this move 3...f5; looks like a Schliemann only arises out of Italin not SPanish. Both Morphy and Steinitz played this position from whites 5th move (there are other games not in this data base).

After fooling around w/ certain transpositions I wonder if Philidor was not making his famous counterattack vs white players who favored Bc4 and not Bb5. I.e. they were trying to play Italian opening.

For instance suppose the guy wanted to play Spanish but every time the guy started 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 philidor would play Greco/Latvian 2...f5.

After losing a few games of this, the guy decides he cant play Spanish so he transpose it into an Italien via the Bishops opening only to find:

1 e4 e5 2 Bc4 Nf6 3 Nf3 f5 and here it goes again.

See I was wondering what move order was Philidors counter attack exactly. Did arise out of Spanish like the Siesta (1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 f5). Or was he playing it right out off the bat like Greco: 1 e4 e5 Nf3 f5)

Or was he doing it out philidors 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6?

<On the 14th of July a large muster of the [London] club took place to greet Mr Morphy with a day's play. That gentleman, however, feeling too unwell for an encounter single-handed, it was resolved to play a game by consultation and Mr Morphy and Mr Mongredien accordingly entered the lists against Herr Lowenthal and Mr Medley. The game was a dull affair, and was drawn after a couple of hours' play. It was now decided to play a game with three on each side...">

There follows reference to and the score of Morphy / Walker / Greenaway vs Lowenthal / Mongredien / Medley, 1858.