|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| May-01-11 | | Al2009: After 17. f6! gxf6 White had a more spectacular line to play with 18.Nd5! (to open Bd3 diagonal) and then after 18..cxd5 19. exd5 Ne5 20. Bxh7! Kxh7 21. Qh4+ Kg8 22. Rxf6 (with idea 23. Qg3+) it seems Black is dead, isn't he? |
|
| May-01-11 | | David2009: Rublevsky vs Onischuk, 1994 White 17? Insane Level material. Try 17.e5 seeing 17...Nxe5 18 f6 gxf6? 19 Qh4 etc. Black has much better defences but this is all I have time for now. Time to
check:
=====
Wrong move order. I must go, but intend to set the position up on a well-known public Internet chess engine later (peace, <newton296>), when I have more time, to search for the win given that my PICE will probably defend differently from Black in the game. |
|
| May-01-11 | | lost in space: Got somehow the idea (f6 and e5 to open files for Queen, Rooks and Bishops, but the lines were to complicated for me to work them out ind etial. No blossoms for me. I used a lot of time to find the right continuation after 17. f6 Nxf6 18. Bg5 and - also to honest - I don't know up to now, if 17. e5 is stronger even less forcing than 17. f6. |
|
| May-01-11 | | dakgootje: Sac that queen on g7!!!
Oh wait, it is sunday :( |
|
May-01-11
 | | scormus: <sevenseaman:> 23 Qh4 looks good too. thanks for the follow up. I also wondered what alternatives B has. 18 ... Ne5 is not forced but it looked to me the most natural move. ...Qd8 looks horrible but would it be better? Also I wasnt sure about 19 ... Nxd3+. Again looks natural but 19 ... gxf6 could be considered. Then Bxh7 then looks strong though I'm not sure if it wins |
|
| May-01-11 | | sevenseaman: <scormus> I thought you had the Rybka or Fritz. Anyway it was quite a trip. My team Chelsea came thru yesterday. Some say lucky but the ball crossed - luck and Chelski do not mix. Its up to the gunners now to to provide them a toehold. Crescendo! |
|
| May-01-11 | | Ghuzultyy: I analysed this position for almost an hour and here is what I have; 17.f6!! is a move easy to find but its defenses are strong so we should not make any mistakes here. There are three defenses I analyzed. A)<17...gxf6?!>
B)<17...Nxf6?!>
C)<17...Qf8!>
---------
A)<17...gxf6?!>
<18.Nd5!>
The most important move in this line.
<18...cxd5> (Forced) <19.exd5> 
click for larger view<19...Ne5>
(19...Qf8?? or 19...Qd8?? ; 20.Qh4!! and black can't defend h7) <20.Qh4! Nxd3+>
(20...f5? 21.Bg5! wins the queen with threat of Bf6+) <21.cxd3 Be6>
(If queen moves 22.Qxf6+! wins this time.)
<22.Bc3!>
click for larger viewNext is 23.Bxf6 and white wins.
-----------
B)<17...Nxf6?!>
This actually seems like a really good move and it is except that now the knight can't defend the e5 square allowing; <18.e5! dxe5> (forced) <19.Qh4!>
With the threat of Rxf6
<19...Rd8> <20.Bg5!>
(20.Rxf6? Rxd3!)
click for larger view<20...Rxd3(forced)> <21.cxd3> and white clearly has the advantage and threats moves like Rxf6 unless black moves the queen. -------
C)<17...Qf8!?>
I saw this move at the beginning of the analysis but didn't think it was a great defence. After finishing the capture moves I started analysing this one and I couldn't find any attack as good as I found on the other moves. <18.e5>
Obviously.
<18...Nxe5 19.Qh4 Nxd3 20.cxd3 Rxe1+ 21.Rxe1 Be6> 
click for larger viewBlack isn't better but black can defend this position in my opinion. Maybe Im missing something. Time to check. |
|
| May-01-11 | | Ghuzultyy: Missed <19.Bxh7!?> on my C) Variation which wins after
<19...Kxh7 20.Ne4!! Ng6 21.Qg5!> leading to a devastating attack that black can't defend. |
|
| May-01-11 | | DarthStapler: I at least considered the first move |
|
May-01-11
 | | patzer2: Today's Sunday puzzle solution with the demolition and clearance sham sacrifice 17. f6! may seem obvious. However, after doing some analysis with the computer, a couple of surprises pop up that are not so obvious. First, Black can put up a lot more resistance with 17...Qf8! when White gains a pawn after 17...Qf8! 18. Qh4 Ne5 19. fxg7+ Qxg7 20. Bg5 Ng6 21. Qf2 Bd8 22. Bxd8 Rxd8 23. Qxf7 Qxf7 24.. Rxf7 Ne5 25. Rf6  with an advantage but no clear win. Second, White has a much stronger followup than 18. e5! with instead
18. Nd5!! cxd5 19. exd5 when play might continue 19...Ne5 20. Qh4 f5 21. Bg5 Qf8 22. Bg6+ Kg8 23. Rxe5! h6 24. Qg3+ Kh7 
click for larger viewNow it's mate in four.
25. Rfxf5! Qg8 26. Rxe8 Qxg3 27. Rg5+! Qxd3 28. Rh8#. |
|
| May-01-11 | | SufferingBruin: Let's compare the analysis of <dzechiel> and myself, shall we? First thing you should do is check out his post. Go on, I'll wait. ---
Now, let's check out what I was going to write.
<I got f6 and even e5 but since e5 could be taken by two pawns, it got confusing. But I got the first move.> I'm playing in his 5/14 tournament. I like dzechiel, I look forward to seeing him again. But I fear our OTB meeting will be all too brief. |
|
May-01-11
 | | tamar: <patzer2> Winning is 17...Qf8 18 e5! Nxe5 19 Bxh7! as <Ghuzultyy> has shown previously on this page. The alternative capture fails as well 18...Rxe5 19 Qh4 Rxe1 20 Rxe1 Nxf6 21 Bg5 and Black drops a piece to prevent mate on h7 |
|
| May-01-11 | | Noflaps: < noendgame: Well, I almost never get Sunday insane puzzles > What constitutes "getting" an insane puzzle? This matter of interpretation is quite important to me, since I correctly predicted the first move ... and then saw nothing else of any particular value. It is as if I found the door to the underground treasure hoard, and then fell down the stairs, head-over-heels, and died in a heap on the dark, rat-infested landing below. Nevertheless, I did find the door, I mean first move, and so would have played it in such a game; so did I "get" the puzzle, or should we simply call the meat wagon to carry off the pathetic, broken bones so that they may no longer taint such an august company of chess scholars. |
|
| May-01-11 | | BOSTER: The most important part of any combo is to find an idea, or the familiar pattern.
I'd like to build the position with opened diagonal for bishop d3,with another bishop on diagonal c3-h8,with double black pawns f7 and f6. In such case pawn h7-is the target, which is very difficult to defend when white queen move on h file.
Of course I saw 17 f6, but black can play Qf8.
And studing <CG> taste I'd play 17Nd5 and maybe went in the wrong direction.
17.Nd5 is very attractive to open e file for rook and give c3 square for bishop and if 17...cxd5 18.exd5 Ne5 19.f6 Qf8 and the end of calculations. |
|
| May-01-11 | | cyclon: Quite fuzzy, but let's begin with 17.e5 (in my view 17.f6 slightly "overlaps" - !7.e5 clears the b1-h7 diagonal retaining the f6.). Anywa, the possibilities in this puzzle seems to be "iridescent". Direct threat is now 18.exd6 winning "something" outright, so Black has to react somehow - he doesn't seem to have valid intermediate move at his disposal being "slow" on the Queenside). A); (not necessarily in the order of priority - just the "main"-lines subjectively digged out from this "mass" of variations) 17. -Qf8 ( -Qd8 18.exd6 B- [-Rxd1+ 19.Rxd1 B- 20.Re7 is hard to hold] 19.Rxe8+ Qxe8 20.Re1 and Re7 similarly) 18.Qh4 Nxe5 (-de5 19.f6 edge > Bh6/-Rxe5 19.f6 and if -Nxf6 20.Rxf6, or -Qg8 20.fxg7+ Qxg7 21.Bh6 clear edge) 19.Rxe5 Rxe5 20.f6 g6 (-Qg8 21.fxg7+ Qxg7 22.Bh6 wins/-Bf5 21.Bxf5) 21.Bh6 Qd8 (-Qe8 is no better) 22.Bxg6 fxg6 23.f7 wins. B); 17. (e5) -d5 18.f6 Qf8 19.Qh4 Qg8 (-h6? 20.fxg7 g6 20.Bh6 Qc5 21.Bxg6 fxg6 22.f7 with winning advantage - 23.e6 is too strong) 20.e6 Nxf6 21.Bh6 (point) and now if -Rxe6 (or -Bxe6 22.Rxf6) 22.Rxe6 Bxe6 23.Rxf6 gxh6 24.Rxh6 should be it. Also if (21.Bh6) -gxh6 22.Qxf6+ Qg7 23.Qxg7+ Kxg7 24.Rxf7+ wins a piece and an ending. C); 17.(e5) -dxe5 18.f6 Qf8 19.Qh4 Qg8 20.fxg7+ Qxg7 ( -Kxg7 21.Bc4 Bd8 22.Qh6+ and 23.Rxf7) 21.Bh6 Qg8 22.Qh5 (point) -Re7 23.Bc4 and Black soon loses something. Also (18.f6) -gxf6 19.Bxh7 should do it. D); 17.(e5) -Nxe5 18.f6 Qf8 ( -Nxd3+? 19.cxd3 wins material) 19.Rxe5 (point) -Rxe5 20.Qh4 and Black seems losing here; -h6 and -Qg8 gets the answer 21.fxg7+, if 20. -g6, then White moves 21.Bh6 Qe8/d8 22.Bxg6 winning. Then, if Black plays (19.Rxe5) -dxe5, follows 20.Qh4 g6 (alternatives; -h6 21.fxg7 gxf6 21.Bh6 Qe7-d6-c5 22.Bg5/-e4 simply 21.Nxe4) 21.Bh6 Qd6 (xf6) 22.Bxg6 fxg6 23.f7 Rf8 24.Ne4 (better than 24.f7). Interesting to see was there something valid in these lines. |
|
May-01-11
 | | agb2002: From a Philidor Defense, I think.
The material is even.
Black is about to play 17... Ne5, blocking the center. The white pieces look ready to attack the black castle, especially after 17.e5, enabling e4 for the knight, and trying to clear the e-file and the b1-h7 diagonal: A) 17... Nxe5 18.Rxe5
A.1) 18... Qxe5 19.Re1 Qxe1+ (19... Qxg3 20.Rxe8#) 20.Bxe1 + - [Q+N vs 2R+P]. A.2) 18... dxe4 19.f6
A.2.a) 19... gxf6 20.Qh4
A.2.a.i) 20... f5 21.Bg5 Qxg5 (21... Qf8 22.Bf6+ Kg8 23.Qg5+ Qg7 24.Qxg7#) 22.Qxg5 + - [Q+N vs R+B+P]. A.2.a.ii) 20... e4 21.Bxe4 is even worse than A.2.a.i. A.2.b) 19... Qf8 20.Qh4
A.2.b.i) 20... g6 21.Bh6 Qg8 22.Bg7+ Qxg7 23.fxg7+ + - [Q+N vs R+B+2P]. A.2.b.ii) 20... h6 21.fxg7+ Qxh6 22.Bxh6 looks crushing. A.2.b.iii) 20... e4 21.Nxe4 with multiple threats, 22.Nd6, 22.fxg7 and 23.Bh6, etc. looks also lost for Black. A.3) 18... d5 19.Rxe7 Bxg3 20.Rxe8#.
B) 17... dxe5 18.f6
B.1) 18... gxf6 19.Bxh7
B.1.a) 19... Kxh7 20.Rf5 and 21.Rh5#.
B.1.b) 19... f5 20.Bxf5 Nf6 (20... Rg8 21.Qh3+ Kg7 22.Qh6#) 21.Qh4+ Kg8 22.Bg5 + -. B.2) 18... Qf8 19.Qh4 looks similar to A.2.b.
C) 17... d5 18.f6
C.1) 18... gxf6 19.Qh4 looks similar to A.2.a.
C.2) 18... Qf8 19.Qh4 seems similar to A.2.b.
C.3) 18... Nxf6 19.exf6 Bxg3 20.Rxe7 Rxe7 21.fxe7 Bd7 22.hxg3 + - [B+N vs P]. D) 17... Qf8 18.f6
D.1) 18... g6 19.Qh4 h5 20.e6 Rxe6 21.Rxe6 fxe6 22.Bxg6 destroys the black castle. D.2) 18... gxf6 19.Bxh7 is similar to B.1. |
|
May-01-11
| | doubledrooks: <tamar> posted: <Winning is 17...Qf8 18 e5! Nxe5 19 Bxh7! as <Ghuzultyy> has shown previously on this page.> Perhaps 18...g6 or 18...d5 would be better for black. |
|
May-01-11
| | patzer2: <Tamar><patzer2> <Winning is 17...Qf8 18 e5! Nxe5 19 Bxh7! as <Ghuzultyy> has shown previously on this page.> Thanks for the catch.
I stand corrected. I read <Ghuzultyy>'s longer post, but missed the followup post where he found the win. I knew I should have given 17...Qf8 18. e5! a longer look but dismissed it too quickly. After 17... Qf8 18. e5! Nxe5 19. Bxh7! Kxh7 20. Ne4! Ng6 21. Qg5!  , play might continue 21...Rxe4 22. Rxe4 Be6 23. Bc3 gxf6 24. Rxf6! Qg7 25. Rxg6 fxg6 26. Bxg7 Kxg7 27. Rxe6 Rc8 28. Rxg6+ Kf7 29. Rg7+ Ke6 30. Re7#. |
|
| May-01-11 | | WhiteRook48: teehee, it's a Sunday, and it's the only puzzle out of the week I actually got correctly |
|
| May-01-11 | | David2009: Rublevsky vs Onischuk, 1994 Part 2: Splendid kibitzes today starting with <Oct-17-04 clocked: Centralize, Open Lines, Sack, Mate! Morphy chess made simple> :), <sevenseasman>'s hunch-backed rats, <Suffering Bruin>'s
comparative analysis (have a great tournament!) and <Noflaps>'s door to the treasure-house. Turning now to the chess rather than the wit, here's the puzzle position 
click for larger view
and a PICE link to explore the position:
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... The fine post by <agb2002> shows that 17.e5! also wins but only if followed up correctly.
The PICE defends with 17...Ne5 18 Rxe5! <agb2002> (but NOT 18 f6? <David2009> refuted by 18...Qf8! 19 Rxe5 Rxe5!) dxe5 19 f6 Qf8 20 Qh4 e4 21 Nxe4
(all foreseen by <agb2002>) Qg8 (now I am on my own) 22 fxg7+ Qxg7 23 Nf6 Bd8 24 Bc3 Re6 25 Bxh7 Rxf6 26 Rxf6 Bxf6 27 Bxf6 and even I could win this ending first time.
The game line 17 f6! also wins but only because the EGT sorry the PICE plays 17...Nxf6?! (event horizon effect?) losing prettily to the impressive analysis given by <Ghuzultyy> variation (B). I hate to disappoint <sevenseaman> and <scormus>, but the PICE defends against 17.Nd5!? with cxd5 18 exd5 Qf8! Time for bed. |
|
| May-01-11 | | stst: Too many variations, 2 main choices:
17.Nd5 eying Q; or
17.f6 trying to open the f & g files first, later Nd5 still helpful.
Nd5 doesn't quite show promise. Try
17.f6 gxf6
18.Bh6 Rg8
19.Qh4 Ne5
20.Nd5 cxd5
21.exd5 Qd8
22.Rxe5 (the point, to open up, but needs great accuracy in both position and speed) fxe5
23.Rxf7 Qxh4
24.Rxh7#
Time to see if the Russian GM agrees, or other fans got better ideas....
21. |
|
| May-01-11 | | M.Hassan: "Insane" White to play 17.?
At first I thought a real wild and "insane" move would be to push the pawn to f6 but did not get much out of it:17.f6 Nxf6
18.Rxf6 Qxf6
I then tried a rather "sane" move and the game continued as below:
17.Bf4 Ne5
18.Be2 Bb6
19.Kb1 Bd7
20.Rd1 Rc8
21.h4
And I think the game continues long.
Time to check
-------------
I could not have solved it the way game was played |
|
May-02-11
| | scormus: <sevenseaman: <scormus> I thought you had the Rybka or Fritz. Anyway it was quite a trip.> Yes, I have Rybka and Stockfish, (Once has Fritz) but I dont often use it when I post. Once I set the engine on a puzzle it means I've given up trying to make further progress. I still have my doubts about ... Nxd3+ but idnt have the chance to play it right out. |
|
| May-02-11 | | cyclon: (17.e5 Nxe5) 18.Rxe5!! exhibited by <agb2002>. I failed to see that and in my continuation 18.f6 Qf8 19.Rxe5 (Qh4 is better but White has already missed a fuller advantage by not playing 18.Rxe5!!-now it's too late) -Rxe5 20.Qh4 and here I MISSED a reply -h5!. Resulting position is about equal by Crafty in post-analysis. |
|
| Sep-01-14 | | Xeroxx: Crashing Through. |
|
 |
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
