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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Apr-27-08 | | Lightboxes: That was silly of black to ignore Bc4. But who woulda guessed Bxc5! Absolutely INSANE! That just blew my mind! |
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Apr-27-08
 | | al wazir: I overlooked 25. c5 and the check with the LSB in favor of 25. Bh6, which doesn't work. But after 25. c5 bxc5 26. Bc4+ Kh8, 27. Bh6 does win, e.g., 27...g5/g6 28. fxg6 hxg6 29. Rxg6 Nxg6 30. Bg7+ Kxg7 31. Rxg7+ Kf8 32. Qh8#. |
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Apr-27-08
 | | Phony Benoni: For the record, this was played in round 6 of the US Open. I was assisting Jim Marfia on the tournament bulletins that year, and we immediately pronounced it the game of the tournament right then, three rounds before the finish. I imagine that a number of people will find 25.c5, but will be surprised if many figure out the whole combination. Good grief, the last move is probably a Tuesday puzzle in itself. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <al wazir: I overlooked 25. c5 and the check with the LSB in favor of 25. Bh6, which doesn't work.> Ditto here. I gave up today, concluding that the solution would be most likely Bh6 followed by something I could not fathom. However, 25. Bh6 does seem to work just fine. Hiarcs 11.2 MP analysis, 18-ply deep:
1. (+3.68) 25. c5 b5 26. cxd6 Rd7 27. Kf1 ...
2. (+3.41) 25. Bh6 Qd7 26. Bxg7 Rxg7 27. Rxg7 Qxg7 28. Rxg7 Rxg7 ... |
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Apr-27-08
| | al wazir: <MAJ: 25. Bh6 does seem to work just fine: 25. Bh6 Qd7 26. Bxg7 Rxg7 27. Rxg7 Qxg7 28. Rxg7 Rxg7>. Yes, I saw that white gets ♕+♙ vs. ♖+♗ in this line. What I meant was that it doesn't lead to an immediate mate. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | saintstephen11: OK, I see why the rook can't take the Queen but what is the continuation after the Knight takes the Queen? |
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| Apr-27-08 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <al wazir: ... What I meant was that it doesn't lead to an immediate mate.> Well, neither does 25.c5 with the correct defense. Black helped white quite a bit in the game, it seems. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | dzechiel: White to move (25?). Material even. "Insane."
White has a nice space advantage as black has had to really hunker down. White would like to activate his light squared bishop, the one piece that seems to not be taking part in the game. So, how about
25 c5
for an initial move? The threat is 26 cxd6, so black can't easily ignore it. But after 25...bxc5 26 Bc4+
Black can't play 26...d5 because of 27 exd5 with the dual threats of 28 dxc6+ and 28 d6+, so... 26...Kh8
This is where white has lots of choices. Should white play - 27 Bh6
- 27 Qh6
- 27 Rh4
- 27 Rh3
The two rook moves both threaten 28 Qxh7+ Nxh7 29 Rxh7+ Kxh7 30 Rh4#. Can black defend? Moving any of the pieces doesn't affect white's threat, but moving the pawns may give black an escape square for the king. Actually, I like
27 Qh6
The queen is immune from capture as 27...gxh6 allows 28 Rg8#. This move blocks the h-pawn from moving, and black can't play 27...g8 because of 28 Qxf8#. On white's next move he will bring one rook to the h-file and carry off the combination mentioned above. Crazy stuff like 27...Ng7 loses to 28 Qxh7+ Kxh7 29 Rh3+ Nh4 30 Rxh4#. Perhaps it will end with 27...Ne6 28 Bxe6 Rxe6 29 Rxg7 Qxg7 30 Rxg7 Rxg7 31 fxe6. I'm not sure how close I am, but this line sure feels good. Time to check. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | Waxmat: saintstephen, after the night takes the queen, the rook will take the knight (another few exclams here). now if the king takes the rook, the last remaining rook gives check on the h file. black can interpose his b just to draw it out one more move, but otherwise it's mate as white's f pawn prevents the king from stepping forward and white's B at c4 prevents him from stepping backward. of course if after NxQ, and black's RxN, black can also take with the rook instead of the King, but then he gets mated with the other rook, this time on g8. does that make sense? hope so. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | saintstephen11: waxmat thanks. It must be late as I missed it completely. I'm thinking the rook takes the rook after RXN, but obviously the other rook goes to G8 with mate. Duh! Time for bed. I need sleep. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | DualCore: Holy goodness. Where do I even begin on this one.
Lets think abstractly here for a moment. the 7th rank belongs to black. This is generally to his disadvantage on the attacking side, however; the biggest threat he currently has is a bishop attacking a pawn. Black's rooks can't be mobilized easily, and the black's dark squared bishop is stuck between a rook and a hard place. A quiet move may very well be in order, as we probably have the time to pull it off. White is far more active, on the other hand; we have a rook battery attacking the king, a Queen ready to join the fight, and our dark squared bishop ready as well. Our knight can move to the center at will (I think, don't quote me on that) Our white bishop is stuck playing guard duty, which is a pain since the a2-g8 diagonal is a tempting place for it. Okay. After venting all that out, lets look at some possibilities. 25. Qh6.
25. Bh6.
25. Nd5.
25. c5.
Qh6 and Bh6 are OTB moves; move a piece to add pressure against another one. Bh6 raises an interesting question; doesn't that leave us up after 25... I don't know, Qc7?
26.Bxg7 Rxg7
27.Rxg7+ Qxg7
28.Rxg7+ Rxg7...
So we've swapped rooks, got a pawn and a Queen, for a rook and a bishop? Pretty steep advantage, and I don't see better play. Maybe
25... Be8
but after... maybe...
25.Rxg7+ Rxg7
26.Qxe8
and the white queen is threatening the black bishop, as well as having the rook pinned to a mating square(f8). Moving the bishop (only place it can go is the 7th rank) cuts off the rook's support. Defending the bishop might work though. Perhaps 26.Qxe8 was wrong. Ah well, I'll find out in a moment... 25. c5! what? I figure I'll explain why it was on my list; it was my move to remove that "oh, my light squared bishop is so useless" feeling, getting it onto the powerful a2-g8 diagonal, and then following with an attack on the g7 square, which is less defended then the h7 one. but after that h pawn moved, enabling 3 pieces to the defence of g7... I never looked past that. 28. Bxg5 is quite the play. and I looked into my 25... Be8 line with a program called arasan, and it spat out +6.44 after Qxe8 with 10 plies, means that it should have been something I missed examining about Be8. Anyone mind checking it out, electronically or otherwise? I need some sleep. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | RandomVisitor: 
click for larger view <Rybkav2.3.2a.x64: 19-ply> <1. (2.63): 25.Bh6> Qc8 26.Kf1 Red7 27.Bb1 Re7 28.Ba2 Kh8 29.Bxg7+ Rxg7 30.Qh6 Qd7 31.Rxg7 Qxg7 32.Rxg7 Rxg7 33.Qd2 Rd7 34.Bb3 a5 35.Kf2 2. (2.17): 25.c5 b5 26.cxd6 Rd7 27.Bxa7 Qxa7+ 28.Kf1 Qd4 29.Qh6 Ng6 30.Qe3 Qxe3 31.Rxe3 Nf4 32.axb5 axb5 33.Bxb5 Rxd6 34.Bxc6 Rxc6 35.Reg3 g6 36.fxg6 hxg6 37.Ne2 Kf7 3. (1.69): 25.Qh4 Rd7 26.c5 b5 27.cxd6 Kh8 28.Kf1 b4 29.Ne2 Qb8 30.Bxa7 Qxa7 31.b3 Qc5 32.Bxa6 Rxd6 33.Rd3 Bb6 |
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| Apr-27-08 | | vescovifan: Ok I got c5 and thats it. I wa looking at 25...d5 trying to block and I figured the diagonal would be open anyways after 25. exd5 Now question..
Why doesnt white take en passant after f5? is the bishop sac faster? |
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| Apr-27-08 | | Azo: What is the problem with 30... Nxh7? |
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| Apr-27-08 | | lost in space: First I thought the best idea would be 25. Nd5 and after Bxd5 26.exd5 to somehow get the pawn on f5 to f6 (with a sac on f6?) to bring Bd3 into the game, supporting the attack (h7). But I found no concrete solution. Then I realized that 25. c5 with the threat Lc4 is doing a similar job, but much easier. 25...d5 is not possible as exd5 create the double threat 26 dxc6 and d6. I am pretty sure, that this is the base of the solution. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | zooter: I too looked at the board and decided that 25.c5 is probably a very good move as it brings the lsb into the attack as well, but didn't follow it through to see what happens because of the sunday rating.... |
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| Apr-27-08 | | zooter: <Azo: What is the problem with 30... Nxh7?>
30...Nxh7 31.Rxh7 and now
a) 31...Rxh7 32.Rg8#
b) 31...Kxh7 32.Rh3+ Bh4 33.Rxh4# |
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| Apr-27-08 | | GreenArrow: 25.c5 is pretty simple. Black pretty much has to take and then the idea of Bc4+ Kh8 Rh4 threatening Qxh7+ forces a decisive weakness. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | outsider: from my point of view, black had to close the diagonal and move ...d5 immediately and at ANY price. after that, it is just a question of time. anyways, i am glad that i have found the idea of a sunday puzzle for the first time in my life |
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| Apr-27-08 | | tallinn: So, people found that Bh6 (and then Bxg7) as well as c5 (like in the game) are good and winning moves and strategies for white in this game. How about the combination of both? This is how the game went from the puzzle position with Fritz as black and me as white: 25. Bh6 Qc8 26. c5 b5 27. cxd6 Bb6+ 28. Kh1 Reb7 29. Bxg7 Rxg7 30. Qh6 Ng6 31. fxg6 Kh8 32. gxh7! Qxg4 (32... Rxg4? 33. d7! Rxd7 (Bxd7?? 34. Qxf6+ Kxh7 35. Rh3+ Kg8 36. Rh8#; Qxd7?? 34. Qf8+ Kxh7 35. Rh3+ Kg6 36. Rh6+ Kg5 37. Qf6#) 34. Rxg4  ) 33. Rxg4 Note how the white pawn on d6 finally justifies gxh7 and decides the game. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | RandomVisitor:
click for larger view <Rybkav2.3.2a.x64: 21-ply> <1. (2.76): 25.Bh6> Qc8 26.Kf1 Red7 27.Bb1 Re7 28.Ba2 Kh8 29.Bxg7+ Rxg7 30.Qh6 Qd7 31.Rxg7 Qxg7 32.Rxg7 Rxg7 33.Qd2 Rd7 34.Bb3 a5 35.Kf2 Ba8 36.Qd3 Bb7 37.Bc2 Kg8 38.Nb5 Be7 39.Qb3 2. (2.68): 25.c5 b5 26.cxd6 Rd7 27.Kf1 Qb8 28.Bxa7 Rxa7 29.Ne2 Rb7 30.axb5 Bxb5 31.Bxb5 axb5 32.Qh6 Qa7 33.Rc3 Rd7 34.Rc6 Qa1+ 35.Qc1 3. (2.08): 25.Qh4 Rf7 26.b4 Qb8 27.b5 Be8 28.bxa6 g6 29.c5 Rg7 30.cxb6 Bxb6 31.Nd5 Bxe3+ 32.Rxe3 Nd7 33.fxg6 Bxg6 34.Rf3 Kh8 35.Bb5 |
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| Apr-27-08 | | johnlspouge: Toga II 1.3.1 evaluates my line
25.c5, threatening 26.Bc4+ Kh8 27.Qh4, etc.
as winning (value +1.30), but obviously inferior to the game line. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | znprdx: This position is ridiculous. It looks like what happens when a player, usually Black, tenaciously tries to play every defensive maneuver imaginable waiting for White to prematurely overreach. Within a minute I settled on what I'd probably play OTB: 25. c5 just upon instinct. It then took about 5 minutes to see the plan aiming to get the knight onto d5 to strike f6 (and b6!).
Presuming ....25.d5 26.e4xd5 I guess the fun starts with ...Bxd5 Aha, how cute....If White tries 27. Bh6 then Nx[B]d5 is threatened, because the g4 will hold the Bc4 queen winning pin. Ok this is is wild...I'm going to time out - the fuses are blowing: Another idea is 27. Bxa6 Rx[B]a6 28. Bh6.... Perhaps less heroic is 25. b4 setting up a zugswang. Even 25. probably is good enough. Perhaps this problem should be try to find what will not win for White. OK insane it is ...I give up.
OH NO - the obvious Bc4+ works...the best is in the notes 27...f6x[B]g5 28. Rxg5 d5 29.Bxd5 Bx[B]d5 30. Nx[B]d5 He-he, I was right all along :) that little old knight will do the clean-up |
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| Apr-27-08 | | johnlspouge: I deleted my previous post, because it seemed a pity to ignore a clean, logical solution on a Sunday. <My revised variations were generated with aid from Toga II 1.3.1.> After 26.Bc4+, the position revolved around the threat of Anastasia's mate: http://www.markalowery.net/Chess/Ch.... Sunday (Insane): White to play and win.
Material: Even. White has an impressive attack based on his spatial advantage on the K-side. The battery Rg3 and Rg4 pin Pg7 to Kg8. Because of the battery, Black is completely passive. The Be3 can intensify the pressure on Pg7 with Bh6, and Qh5 is nearby. White cannot overwhelm Black with firepower against Pg7, however, so his attack must shift. The White Nc3 and Bd3 are not contributing to the attack, although they hold the pressure from the Black battery Qb7 and Bc6. Candidates (25.): c5
25.c5, threatening
26.Bc4+ Kh8
leaving Kh8 with no legal move, making it ripe for Anastasia's mate on the h-file, as follows. 27.Rh4 (threatening 29.Qxh7 Nxh7 30.Rxh7+ Kxh7 31.Rh3#) Only the anti-positional moves 27…g6 and 27…g5 can stop Anastasia's mate. (1) 27…g6 28.fxg6 (threatening 29.Bxh6, collapsing Black's position) (2) 27…g5 28.Bxg5 (threatening 29.Bxf6+ 30.Rg8#)
28…Rf7 29.Bh6 (threatening 30.Rg8#)
and Black's position collapses.
There is no effective way to meet the threat, so Black's response to 25.c5 must prepare for it. Black must prevent Bd3 from controlling the a2-g7 diagonal, but the alternatives are even less appealing than facing the threat above. (1) 25…d5 26.exd5 Bxd5 [Be8 27.Qh4] 27.Nxd5 Qxd5 28.Bc4 pinning and winning Qd5
(2) 25…Be8 26.Bc4+ Bf7
[26…Kh8 27.Qh6 forces Black to hemorrhage material to stop Anastasia's mate] 27.Rxg7+ Kh8 28.Rg8+ Bxg8 29.Rxg8#
(3) 25…b5 26.cxd6
and Black loses the exchange. |
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| Apr-27-08 | | xKinGKooLx: I thought 25. Bh6 too. I thought that the subtle 25. c5 was very hard to see, since it's a small pawn move away from the action on the kingside. Good puzzle, but tough. Kudos to Ivanov for seeing it. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 29.Bxf6
