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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| May-18-12 | | Jazzer32: It looks to me that 26.Nxg6 is even more stronger than 26.Qh8+ (not so beautiful , tho..) |
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| May-18-12 | | TomOhio: 26. Ng6 , threatening Qh8# and, if need be, Re8.
Can someone explain why this isn't a winner? I've worked out several lines, and it ends in either mate or Black loses his Queen. For example, 26. ... Rg7 to provide an escape.
27. Qh8+ Kf7
28. Ne5+ Kf6
29. Rf1+ Bf5
30. Qh6+ Ke7
31. Qxg7+ Kd8
32. Rxf5 and it's goodnight. |
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| May-18-12 | | zakkzheng: This is a very easy problem for a difficult Friday |
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| May-18-12 | | TimothyLucasJaeger: <24 Qxh6+ Kxh6 Rxf7> would work out nicely if only black would agree to trade rooks. This suggests reversing the move order. <24 Rxf7+> Now
1. <24 ... Rxf7 25 Qxh6+> 1a. 25 ... Kxh6 26 Nxf7+ followed by 27 Nxd6 lieaves white up two pawns including a protected passer on the fifth rank. 1b. 25 ... Kf6 26 Qxg6 #.
1c. 25 ... Kg8 26 Nxg7 leaves black with no adequate way to defend h8 and e8. e.g., 1c1. 26 .. Rh7 27 Re8+ Kf7 28 Re7+ Qxe7 29 Qxh7+, winning the queen. 1c2. 26 ... Rg7 and since i can't seeem to get 27 Qh8+ Kf7 28 Qe8+ Kf6 29 Rf1+ Bf5 to work i guess i'd settle for 27 Re7+ Qxe7 28 Nxe7 actually wait skip all that (1c)
1cRevised. after 25... Kg8 just 26 Qh8+ Kxh8 27 Nxf7+ and 28 Nxd6 2. <24 ... Kg8 Qxh6 Rxf7> transposes to 1cRevised. Looks like that's it. |
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| May-18-12 | | TimothyLucasJaeger: whoops in my 1b. 26 Qxg6 isn't mate. Others have pointed out the winning line. |
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| May-18-12 | | awfulhangover: Must be an easy Friday. I saw it all, although I'm dumb. |
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| May-18-12 | | mistreaver: Friday, material even, Difficult!
White is clearly better, black is underdeveloped and white has 2 open files.
This is one of those positions where combination is simply "in the air".
So let's see:
Sacrifice od knight looks nice:
24. Nxf7 Rxf7 (else Qc3+ and mate)
25. Qc3+ Kg8 (else black loses his rook)
26. Re8+ and now Black must play Qf8 giving up his queen.I like this line, altought black has rook and bishop vs queen, white is totally wining,
if i haven't missed something.
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Hmm rf7+ is good, but what have i missed in my line? Any thoughts? |
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| May-18-12 | | jhelix70: I didn't even look at Rxf7; I immediately fixated on Nxf7! My main line was:
1. Nxf7! Rxf7
2. Qc3+ Kg8
3. Re8+ Rf8 (...Qf8 amounts to the same thing)
and after two exchanges on f8 whites queen gives check on f6 and cleans up. |
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| May-18-12 | | Castleinthesky: Fairly easy for a Friday. I saw the distraction concept and the puzzle fell into place in a natural manner. |
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May-18-12
 | | chrisowen: <mistreaver> The big gun rxf7+ and let Urs truly qxh6+ cielo, Midfield OE whats the pointing bh6 over the madly cricking g7 surely this line is no good for black?
Underneath in also nxf7 rxf7 c3+! squidgy widget kg8 re8+ deeply engorging a gulf in development?
Mind do it double in digger xh6+ kg8 qh8+ beck and call it dance in xf7+ kg8 nxd6 glorify it two pawns up bone effect in parlez le phantom it strike twice on elephant. |
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| May-18-12 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: Material is similar, but black's undeveloped R+B and the other passive pieces are fatal handicaps in this position. White is ready to crash through. 24.Rxf7+! was the move that occurred immediately, and it sets up a winning royal fork. A) 24... Rxf7 25.Qxh6+! Kxh6 26.Nxf7+ Kg7 27.Nxd6 Bf5 (otherwise black drops a piece) 28.Nxf5 gxf5 29.Re7+ and black can resign the hopeless R&P ending, three pawns down. A.1) 25... Kg8 26.Qh8+! Kxh8 27.Nxf7+ followed by 28.Nxd6 is similar to the main line. A.2) 25... Kf6 26.Rf1+! Bf5 (Kxe5 27.Qe3#) 27.Qxg6+ Kxe5 (Ke7 28.Qxf7+) 28.Qg3+ wins the BQ. A.3) 26... Kh5 27.Nxd6 Bd7 (Bf5 28.g4+) 28.Re7 rd8 29.Nb7 wins the B. B) 24... Kg8 25.Qh6 Rxf7 26.Qh8+ transposes to A.1.
Time for review.... |
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May-18-12
 | | kevin86: The queen offers herself first with choice,the in the Godfather mode. White picks up a couple of pawns and greatly simplifies the game. |
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May-18-12
| | kevin86: It just struck me! The man's name is Barbero,similar to a famous horse---and his winning moves are with a horse (knight). |
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May-18-12
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Here's a very tricky endgame puzzle, for those inclined to attempt it. Even though this game ended in a draw, black had a tablebase win on more than one occasion. It's move 84 with BLACK to play and win.
click for larger viewThe game link is below.
Kasparov vs Badalian, 1976 |
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| May-18-12 | | sevenseaman: <jim> I do not know if I have found the best moves for each side. I came up to here and I think Black can win. 84...b4 85. Ne4 kb6 86. Kxe6 a6 87. Kd6 Kb5 88. Kd5 b3 89. Kd4 b2 90. Nc3 Kb4 91.Nb1 a4 92. Kd3 Kb3 93. Nd2+ Kb4 or Ka2 and Black should be able to queen at least one P and win. The position is susceptible to a perpetual too. Tough for me to work it out. |
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May-18-12
 | | fm avari viraf: For those who are acquianted with tactics the difficulty disappears as the conspicuous 24.Rxf7+ Rxf7 25.Qxh6+ Kxh6 [ if ...Kg8 then 26.Qh8+ ]26.Nxf7+ wins. |
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| May-18-12 | | dzechiel: White to move (24?). Material even. "Difficult."
Well, this one looks like it starts...
24 Rxf7+ Rxf7 25 Qxh6+
Now if black takes the queen with 25...Kxh6 then 26 Nxf7+ Kg7 Nxd6 leaves white up two clean pawns. But what if, instead, black decides that a rook is sufficient, and plays... 25...Kg8
Of course not 25...Kf6 26 Qxg6+ Ke7 27 Nxf7+ and 28 Nxd6. 26 Qh8+
White insists.
26...Kxh8 27 Nxf7+ Kg6 28 Nxd6
again leaving white up two clean pawns. This has to be it. |
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May-18-12
| | Jimfromprovidence: <sevenseaman> <I do not know if I have found the best moves for each side. I came up to here and I think Black can win.
84...b4 85. Ne4 kb6 86. Kxe6 a6 87. Kd6 Kb5 88. Kd5 b3 89. Kd4 b2 90. Nc3 Kb4 91.Nb1 a4 92. Kd3 Kb3 93. Nd2+ Kb4 or Ka2 and Black should be able to queen at least one P and win. The position is susceptible to a perpetual too. Tough for me to work it out.> Sir, that was such a wonderful try. I believe that this is your final position. 
click for larger viewWhite still cannot win at this point, however.
The key for black is to initially shut out white's king from participating. Only one move does that for black at the puzzle position. Having said all that, I can't think of one rule or tenet that concisely sums up why black should win with that one correct move. Endgames remind me of chaos theory. |
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| May-18-12 | | Patriot: This seems awfully easy for a difficult problem.
24.Rxf7+ Rxf7 25.Qxh6+ Kxh6 26.Nxf7+ and 27.Nxd6  , the main idea. There are other variations, but I think the only other variation worth considering is 24...Kg8 25.Qxh6 (threatening immediate mate on g7 or h7) 25...Rxf7 26.Nxf7 Kxf7 27.Qh7+ looks like a winning king hunt. |
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| May-18-12 | | 1stboard: Good thing Black resigned when he did as he is going to lose still more material based on the final position ( at least 1 or 2 pawns and maybe more ..... ). |
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| May-18-12 | | sevenseaman: <jim> I think I got it. Last night it was late and after I posted my work I immediately went to bed. I had dreams about this position only. I felt I could have shut out the White K altogether by playing Kb6. This morning I was hoping to read your solution but instead I read what I should have done (as in my dream). When I play out the idea I get the winning position for Black. 84...Kb6 85. Kxf7 Kc5 86. Ne4+ KC4 and I am here;
click for larger viewand White has no move that can stop Black from winning. If I had an engine I might even have got an accurate assessment. If it is something different then it is out of my compass apparently. |
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May-18-12
| | Jimfromprovidence: You played it perfectly the first two moves. The "only” moves for black are 84...Kb6!; and, if 85 Kxe7 follows, then 85...Kc5 is the only winning move.
click for larger viewNow, if white continues 86 Ne4+, then 86...Kc4 does not win! 
click for larger viewBut 86…Kd4, Kd5 or Kb4 all win. It's so complicated that my advice is to consult the tablebases my friend! |
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| May-18-12 | | M.Hassan: <Tom Ohio:26. Ng6 , threatening Qh8# and, if need be, Re8. Can someone explain why this isn't a winner? I've worked out several lines, and it ends in either mate or Black loses his Queen. For example, 26. ... Rg7 to provide an escape.
27. Qh8+ Kf7
28. Ne5+ Kf6
29. Rf1+ Bf5
30. Qh6+ Ke7
31. Qxg7+ Kd8
32. Rxf5 and it's goodnight.>
This is my analysis:
26.Nxg6 Rh7 to provide blockage
27.Ne7+ Qxe7
28.Rxe7 Rxh6
27.Re8+ also does not work. |
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| May-19-12 | | sevenseaman: Thanks <jim>. These kind of endings are really scary for me. Too much scope for a slip. How do I access the tablebases and what do they tell us? Can these be used in a real game or one has to build up the proficiency. |
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| May-19-12 | | dragon player: I only see this:
24.Rxf7+ Rxf7
25.Qxh6+ Kxh6
26.Nxf7+ Kg7
27.Nxd6
and white is two pawns up and threathens 28.Re8.
Time to check.
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In the game black first didn't accept the queen, but he
had to after all.
5/5 |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 24.Rxf7+