|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jan-15-09 | | mworld: i started with Qd8 and then 'blundered' into a draw :( (even though a win was still possible) |
|
Jan-15-09
 | | Jimfromprovidence: I found the position at black’s 33rd move really challenging. It appears that if black plays either Raf8 or Rg8 he is safe. (All other moves by the rook on a8 lose.) White cannot now win with 34 Qe6 in either case.
After 33…Rg8, if 34 Qe6, black has 34…Rxc7 and is winning.
click for larger view
After 33…Raf8, if 34 Qe6, black has 34…Bxd5 and should draw.
click for larger view |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | teecal32: geez---im brain dead sometimes....lol
its my first post what do u expect.......lol
thanks for the responces partic...
skafi and mikhs |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | YouRang: The main things we have here are:
(1) Black's king is in mortal danger thanks to my h6 pawn and the proximity of my queen which can mate at g7 or any back-rank mate, and (2) We have passed pawns at c7 and d5.
This should be winning, and my first idea is 34.Qd8, forcing 34...Rff8. But then 35.Qd7 threatens Qg7#, so black needs 35...Rg8, leaving Pf6 unguarded. So, 36.Qf7 threatens Qxf6+ w/ mate to follow, forcing 36...Ref8. Now 37.Qe6, and I've got black's rooks thoroughly bottled. I don't see what's stopping me from pushing my passed pawns to victory. Okay, I see that Anand's solution comes to the point a bit quicker, but not no more certainty, IMO. (He is a GM after all.) |
|
Jan-15-09
 | | beenthere240: 33,,,Rg8 (the turtle defense).
34 Qc6 followed by d6, d7 etc. The connected passed pawns are routinely lethal if black doesn't try to get real counterplay. 33. Re8 looks for this counterplay, but loses to an inspired shot. |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | DarthStapler: I got the first move |
|
Jan-15-09
| | Jimfromprovidence: <beenthere240> <33,,,Rg8 (the turtle defense). 34 Qc6 followed by d6, d7 etc.> If 33...Rg8 34 Qc6 then 34...Bxd5 stops it. (If 35 Qxd5 then 35…Rxc7. If 35 c8Q then 35…Bxc6). 33...Rg8 or Raf8 seem to be the only moves to stop white. Note: Here are corrections to my previous post.
<After 33…<Raf8>, if 34 Qe6, black has 34…Rxc7 and is winning.> <After 33…<Rg8>, if 34 Qe6, black has 34…Bxd5 and should draw.> |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | FrogC: I found Qe6 and Black's defence with Rff8 easily. Then I looked and looked and couldn't see a White win. Even after looking at the final position I couldn't understand why Black had resigned. I played Rxc8 and stared at it some more. It just seemed that White had lost a pawn for nothing. And yet I'd seen the basic mate ideas when trying to break the Rff8 defence with Qc7 followed by Qf7. I'd missed the way White's 35th and 36th moves lure the rooks into the wrong positions so they can't defend both f6 and g7. It still seems magical to me. |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | patzer2: For today's Thursday puzzle solution, White plays 34. Qe6!! to use Black's weak back rank as a diversion to infiltrate for a mating attack after 34...Rff8 35. c8=Q!  .In this final position, after 35...
Rxc8 36. Qe7 , Black can delay but cannot prevent White's coming Qg7#. |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | Mulyahnto: To me <34. Qd8> was most straight forward. Which has to be replied by 34. ... Rff8
35. Qd7 Rg8
36. Qc6 Rgf8 <36. Qd6 Rg6 37. Qe6! Bb5 38. c8=Q Rxh6 39. Qcxe8 Bxe8 40. Qxe8 and white wins according to fritz> 37. Qxc4 and white wins
<
click for larger viewAnalysis by Fritz 6 Light:
1. (#9): 37...b5 38.Qc6 Re1+ 39.Kh2 Ree8 40.d6 g4 41.d7 g3+ 42.Kh3 2. (#9): 37...g4 38.d6 g3 39.Kf1 Ra8 40.d7 Ra1+ 41.Ke2 (, 15.01.2009)
>
However, the text move by Anand is much stronger. As it is followed by 35. ... Rxc8
36. Qe7
And black cannot avoid checkmate.
<36. ... Rf7 37. Qxf7 Rg7 38. Qxf6+ Rg7+ 39. Qxg7#> |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | SamAtoms1980: Spent several minutes trying to decide between 34. Qd8 and Qe6, finally picking Qd8 because it blocks Black access to the c8 square. Finally, went with 34. Qd8 Rff8 35. Qd7 Rg8 36. d6 with what looked like the unparriable threat of 37. Qxe8 Rxe8 38. d7 . If 36 ... Be6 37 Qxe6 Rxe6 38 d7 and wins. Whoops, no, 38 ... Ree8 gets back and likely wins. No wait, after 36 ... Be6 simply go back with 37 Qc6 and then that wins, since there is no stopping d7 now. Close, but no cigar. It's a good thing I don't smoke. |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | Eduardo Leon: This is what I saw:
34. Qe6 Rff8
Now the black's second ranth has been cleared, so...
35. Qd7
Threatening mate in one.
35. ... Rg8 36. Qf7
Threatening mate in two.
36. ... Rf8 37. Qe7
Both rooks can't be moved, so black is forced to defend c8 with the bishop 37. ... Ba6 38. d6
And what follows is slaughter.
Let's see if I'm correct. |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | Eduardo Leon: Oh, Anand's solution was simpler and more effective than mine. |
|
Jan-15-09
 | | Once: <JG27Pyth: I FOUND A SOLUTION THAT ELUDED JohnLSpouge, Dzechiel, TheAn & Once !!!> Good call! Your line (and Anand's) is much more incisive than the one I found. |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | vanytchouck: Oh my god !!!
I was completly drunken to see a white "a-pawn" ...
Sorry ... |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | GreenFacedPatzer: Is there anything fundamentally wrong with
34 Qd8?
The only defense I saw to it was
... Rff8, but after that
35 Qd7
theatens mate on g7. Black can interpose either rook to delay mate , but after QxR there's no defense left. Am I missing something? |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | mworld: <GreenFacedPatzer: Is there anything fundamentally wrong with 34 Qd8?
The only defense I saw to it was
... Rff8, but after that
35 Qd7
theatens mate on g7. Black can interpose either rook to delay mate , but after QxR there's no defense left. Am I missing something? >
you are right about Qd8 being winning also (i went down this path), but you are missing another defense by black: Rg8 (which protects the mate square g7 rather than block it) |
|
Jan-15-09
| | Once: <GreenFacedPatzer> If you take a look at some of the earlier kibitzing you will see that quite a few of us went down the Qd8 route. It works ... slowly ... but it works all the same. |
|
Jan-15-09
 | | gawain: Happy day! I saw Qe6 and the follow up, too. I am pleased with myself. |
|
Jan-15-09
| | OBIT: After playing around with this position, I'm starting to believe that anything wins. For example, there are ways to win even after 34. Qe6 Rff8 35. Qd7 Rg8 36. Qf7 Ref8. From here, the move I like is 37. Qe7, reaching the following position: 
click for larger viewThe queen on e7 effectively ties down both rooks, making a pawn promotion lethal. So, Black must play 37...Ba6, which leads to 38. d6 Bc8 39. d7 Bxd7 40. Qxd7 Re8. White then repeats the maneuver to tie down the rooks: 41. Qf7 Ref8 42. Qe7, and now there is no defense to c8=Q. For sure, this is longer than the game continuation, but it's an elegant finish, IMO. |
|
| Jan-15-09 | | vanytchouck: I agree as my initial idea (even with my hallucination) is also working. 34.Qe6 Rff8
35.Qd7 Rg8
36.Qc6!!(instead of d6) Ref8 (or Rgf8)
37.Qxc4 and the c7 and d6 pawns are lethal.
|
|
| Jan-15-09 | | akapovsky: Missed the <Qe6> line and went for <Qe8> with according to analysis it's also winning but <Qe6> is much more simpler and better.You get some and you miss some that's how life is. |
|
| Jan-16-09 | | johnlspouge: My variation actually was fine for a mate (although longer than Anand's). Later, I realized that inadvertently, I made the computer insert a null move, so 36.Qf7 does eventually mate. |
|
| Mar-18-09 | | WhiteRook48: first thought 35...Rxc8 |
|
| Sep-18-21 | | Whitehat1963: Weekend puzzle material after black plays 23 e6. (Opening of the Day)
Brilliant combination! Anand just saw more clearly. |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 27.bxc5