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Alexander Grischuk vs Vasyl Ivanchuk
World Championship Candidates (2013), London ENG, rd 8, Mar-24
Sicilian Defense: Old Sicilian. Open (B32)  ·  1-0

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Kibitzer's Corner
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Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Peligroso Patzer: <Eyal: *** Both Chucks are known time-trouble addicts, but whereas with Grischuk you often feel that somehow it's part of the natural flow, or rhythm, of his play, for Ivanchuk it tends to be more destructive when he really gets deep into it.>

Apropos Grischuk’s clock management, I always remember this post from Feb-18-2010, at page 13 of the thread for Topalov vs Grischuk, 2010:

<Eyal: Anand on Grischuk:

<If I have only five minutes left on the clock, I start to get nervous. For Grischuk, time trouble only begins when he has five seconds left. Before that he carefully writes the moves on his scoresheet, including minutes and seconds spent by each player - all that with unbelievable calm. Maybe he needs the thrill.>>

Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Peligroso Patzer: With regard to my last post, I wonder (and tend to doubt) whether Grischuk can remain so deliberate and calm down to 5 seconds left on his clock in a time control <sans> increment (as are the primary and secondary time controls for this event).

It may also be worth noting that Grischuk in time pressure misplayed the ending from the 2010 game with Topalov (see link in previous post) and took a zero in that game.

Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: The quality of the chess is Job #1. Increments are a no brainer. It's a must have. This tournament is too important for the results to be skewed by time forfeits.
Mar-24-13  Eyal: <Peligroso Patzer> Oh, Grischuk certainly lost his share of points due to his time-management - and, conversely, Ivanchuk had his share of great saves in time trouble. But still, my overall impression is that Grischuk tends to perform considerably better in such high-pressure conditions. (And I know they're both great blitz players - but being in serious time trouble during a classical game is not quite the same thing as playing blitz.) As far as I recall, when Ivanchuk has good tournaments his play in them tends to be characterized by a saner way of handling the clock.
Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  plang: < HeMateMe: The quality of the chess is Job #1. Increments are a no brainer. It's a must have. This tournament is too important for the results to be skewed by time forfeits.>

Ivanchuk knew exactly how many moves needed to be made and how much time he had to make them - there is no possible purpose to increments in that situation.

Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: It doesn't matter. One should take the eccentricities of brilliant players like Ivanchuk into consideration when setting up a tournament. The organizers of this event failed to cover all bases when they didn't put in time increments. Other serious tournaments have them, and so should a Candidates event.

Is there anyone who *wouldn't* have wanted to see how the Ivanchuk/Grischuk would have turned out, had it been played to conclusion?

What happens with time increments? The game might last an extra fifteen minutes? Some old fart tournament referee might miss a rerun of Matlock?

Mar-24-13  SamAtoms1980: Actually, they DID put in time increments ---- starting at move 60.

You've got 120 minutes for the first 40 moves and another hour for the next 20. I'm rooting for Ivanchuk as much as anybody but if that's not enough time for you then it's your own damn problem.

Mar-24-13  Mr. Bojangles: Battle of the snoozers

I understand chunky lost on time lol

Mar-24-13  Mr. Bojangles: <
Is there anyone who *wouldn't* have wanted to see how the Ivanchuk/Grischuk would have turned out, had it been played to conclusion? >

Yes.

What we would rather see is competent time management befitting of a potential world title challenger.

Mar-24-13  fgh: <lost in space: Ivanchuck might have an ELO of 2757 but he will never be a GREAT player.>

"Great" meaning "in the league of Kasparov and Fischer"? This is worth taking into account:

http://en.chessbase.com/home/TabId/...

http://en.chessbase.com/home/TabId/...

Mar-24-13  birthtimes: How the hell did Chucky even make it to this event????
Mar-24-13  IndigoViolet: <Alexander noted that it was his first win in classical chess at world championships or candidates in six years and seventeen games. Hear Ye! Hear Ye!>

http://www.chessbase.com/Home/TabId...

Mar-24-13  IndigoViolet: <The Chess World Cup 2011 was a chess 128-player single-elimination tournament, played between 26 August and 21 September 2011, in Khanty-Mansiysk, Russia.[1] The Cup winner Peter Svidler, along with the two runners-up, Alexander Grischuk and Vassily Ivanchuk, qualified for the Candidates stage of the World Chess Championship 2013.>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_...

Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: Oh, for Pete's sake. (I wanted to substitute "Christ's" for "Pete's" but CG.com disapproves.) Ivanchuk couldn't even manage to play this ending without flagging? Unbelievable. Whether Carlsen or Aronian advances, and thus gets to beat Anand (which either will do) may depend on who Ivanchuk flags to this round. I hope he can manage to avoid that.
Mar-24-13  Ulhumbrus: 11 Nxf6+ moves the knight a third time to exchange it for a knight moved once, losing at least one tempo for development on balance.

After 13 h3 Black's worst placed piece is his QB. This suggests that the move 13...Bd7 is to be considerd first. Then ...Rac8 may follow, supporting the move ...Nc4.

15 Qf3 attacks indirectly the f7 pawn and so pins the bishop on f6 after 15...Nxb2 16 Nb4 followed by Nd5. An alternative to 15...Be6 is 15...Ne5 followed by ...Bd7

19...Bxb3 devalues the knight because it cannot now go to c4. Instead of this, 19..Rac8 develops the rook.

21...a6 costs a tempo for development. Instead of this 21...Rfd8 supports the advance ...d5. It is time for Black to think about how to put his pawns to work.

Someone said that 38...Ne6 was a blunder. Perhaps Ivanchuk forgot that his rook on a6 was pinned to his rook on a8. This suggests that 38...Na4 is necessary

Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: <SamAtoms1980> I'm talking about 15 second increments, on each move. It guarantees the GM will always get one solid look at the board, no matter how much time trouble he/she gets into.

They can see more in 15 seconds than you or I can see in ten minutes.

Mar-24-13  Marmot PFL: The older brain needs more time to reflect on the position. 40,000 neurons a day disappear after age 40, and the synapses in the prefrontal cortex break, affecting planning and reasoning. Functioning in the hippocampus also declines, affecting short term memory.
Mar-24-13  Jim Bartle: Could you repeat that, more slowly, marmot?
Mar-24-13  diceman: <Marmot PFL: The older brain needs more time to reflect on the position. 40,000 neurons a day disappear after age 40, and the synapses in the prefrontal cortex break, affecting planning and reasoning. Functioning in the hippocampus also declines, affecting short term memory>

Tell that to Korchnoi.

Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  northernfox: <Marmot> On that basis I am down 233,600,000 neurons! I am going to get a drink. What was I doing?
Mar-24-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: If you jog or walk hills, you can build more cranial neural networks, which in function replace whatever brain cells we have lost watching Gilligan's Island and Three's Company. Hard cardio work brings extra oxygen to the brain, which results in nice things.
Mar-25-13  RookFile: I always thought Three's Company was deeply philosophical.
Mar-25-13  lost in space: Even after a day after I can not stop posting about this game and Ivnachuck.

I am a bloody patzer and amateur, but I even I know that - in case my opponent is very good in blitz - I have to avoid own time trouble or in a common time trouble that I have less time than he.

Invanchuk had roughly 20 minutes time plus on move 17 - 21, for his move 22 (22...Rac8) he consumed all his time plus. And there was no deeper reason to use so much time for this move. No direct threat, no really complicated position. Nothing special here. A simple development move. 22...Rac8, to be seen in a second, even for me. Ivanchuk lost the game exactly at this point.

The point is that he lost on time the third time in this tournament. How can someone such a good chess player (and therefor has to be intelligent) and so stupid at the same time? He is no real professional. Forget him as candidate. He is a big child.

Mar-25-13  Abdel Irada: <Marmot PFL: The older brain needs more time to reflect on the position. 40,000 neurons a day disappear after age 40, and the synapses in the prefrontal cortex break, affecting planning and reasoning. Functioning in the hippocampus also declines, affecting short term memory.>

More recent findings suggest that the picture isn't quite as bleak as you paint it. Neurons do disappear, but re-routing of signals occurs that compensates for this in varying degrees, while the broken synapses are replaced by new ones.

Also, how this process plays out is highly variable, with both genetic and behavioral factors in play. It is known, for example, that the brain acts almost like a muscle in the sense of "use it or lose it": The more one activates the connections, the more new ones will be forged.

In particular, learning new activities and skills, playing games that use one's mental faculties, solving logic (or chess!) puzzles, and learning or merely speaking languages (this is most notoriously true of Chinese, which because of its intonations uses both brain hemispheres), as well as the simple act of maintaining regular and active social communications, have all proved beneficial in retaining or sometimes even improving cognitive abilities well into old age.

So, fellow old (and middle-aged) codgers of <chessgames.com>, don't abandon all hope just yet. With luck, you can be another Viktor Korchnoi, and look forward to many more years at the top of your mental game.

Dec-13-18  rcs784: How do you rate Black's drawing chances in the final position if he hadn't lost on time? White's a pawn up, but how can he ever make a passer, given the pawn structure? To my untrained eye, Ivanchuk seems to have excellent practical chances to hold this.
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