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The World vs Gert Timmerman
"Dead to the World" (game of the day Aug-12-2008)
Chessgames Challenge (2007) (exhibition), chessgames.com, rd 3, Feb-01
Dutch Defense: Leningrad. Warsaw Variation (A88)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Given 10 times; par: 115 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 1727 OF 1784 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-26-08  crwynn: <ravel5184: Well, I guess it's 60. Rb5+ for the list.

I'm getting bored. Anyone for a game of Tic Tac Toe?>

Sure. I offer a draw :)

I've been away awhile, I'm surprised to see this is still going on. I guess he wants to get to something obvious at a glance, like 60.Rb5 Kd4 61.Rh5 c3 62.Ke2 Nf2 63.Rh8. And maybe he holds out hopes for 63.Kxf2 ;)

Jul-26-08  karnak64: <belgradegambit: Rb5+ for the poll. Even a rank beginner would play it.>

Even I would play it!

Jul-26-08  ravel5184: <crwynn> All right, draw accepted.

Well, that was fun. Anyone else?

Jul-26-08  kb2ct:

Let's take the h-pawn first.

I trust that the team will avoid the draw trap.

:0)

Jul-26-08  Certhas: Would it be possible to implement something in the future where we could vote for lines? Say currently there could be the following votes:

60. Rb5+ Kd4 61. Rxa5 c3 62. Ke2

60. Rb5+ Kd4 61. Rxa5

60. Qxf8+

60. Rb5+

And if he responds to Rb5+ with Kd4, Rxa5 is automatically played as long as the lines including the move still have a majority. So a vote for Rb5+ would be a vote for making that move and definitely getting another 3 days before our next move. It would allow us to speed up the game in forced lines, but only if we choose so.

Jul-26-08  AngryAaron69: Ravel, I accept

__|__|__
__|__|__
_X|__|__

Jul-27-08  currambero: espero que GMT ya diga:" no mas!!! me voy a dormir..y soƱar con la reina".. jejjeje...
Jul-27-08  Nikita Smirnov: 60.Rb5+ here too.Now we have the win.
Jul-27-08  MostlyAverageJoe: I've relinquished the participation in the game to my kid.

His vote is Rb5+.

Jul-27-08  g.mueller: My vote is for 60. Rb5+
Jul-27-08  zsoydd: 60.Rb5+ -> list

a check is a check is a check

Jul-27-08  ravel5184: <AngryAaron69>

__|__|__
__|_O|__
_X|__|__

Jul-27-08  DPLeo:  
[Event "Tic Tac Toe Challenge"]
[Site "chessgames.com"]
[Date "2008.07.26"]
[Round "1"]
[X "AngryAaron69"]
[O "ravel5184"]
[Result "?"]
[ECO "?"]
[PlyCount "2"]

3/1O1/X2 X - - 0 2

1.a1 b2

Anaysis:
     AngryAaron69 has opened with the Southwest Corner gambit.      ravel5184 responed with the Center Counter variation.

Current position:
     __|__|__
     __|_O|__
     _X|__|__

Jul-27-08  patzer2: Mine was vote number 208 for 60. Rb5+!
Jul-27-08  M.Hassan: vote No 212: 60.Rb5+
Jul-27-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Certhas> One problem with conditional lines and other attempts to speed things up: the number of registered team members is much greater than the number of regular voters. So even if, for instance, we could vote for a move and simultaneously add an if-then choice for the next move (or even click a "move today" box) - and if 95% of the regulars made the same selection - there's always a theoretical chance that the choice could be overturned by other team members.

That relates only to implementing a change during a game, of course. If conditionals are part of the rules from the start, there shouldn't be a problem -- although it would need to be used with great care.

It may seem frustrating right now -- but that's just the price we pay for having conditions that suit us earlier in the game, giving us time to make key decisions properly. And one thing I've learned from previous discussions with CG is that rule changes during a game are completely out of the question.

Jul-27-08  Hugin: Lady Karpova, 60 Rb5+.
Jul-27-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Open Defence: I voted for 60.Rb5+
Jul-27-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: When will somebody admit to voting for 0-1?
Jul-27-08  scolley: For The List: 60. Rb5+.
Jul-27-08  zanshin: <Domdaniel: And one thing I've learned from previous discussions with CG is that rule changes during a game are completely out of the question.>

As they should be, imho!

<When will somebody admit to voting for 0-1?>

How much credibility would you give to posts coming from someone who had admitted to voting 0 - 1?

Jul-27-08  firebrandx: One thing that could be done for future games like this is to have the game end as soon as a 6-piece TB position is reached. Since it is understood both sides are allowed to use these, and you can freely access them online, there should be no reason for either side to contest this.

So basically once a 6-piece position is reached, the match ends and the outcome is ruled by the TB's result. This way you don't end up have to play out a mate-in-34 or whatever.

Jul-27-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  plang: <One thing that could be done for future games like this is to have the game end as soon as a 6-piece TB position is reached.>

Is it impossible for a grandmaster to find an improvement over a tablebase? Are tablebases infallible?

Jul-27-08  firebrandx: <<One thing that could be done for future games like this is to have the game end as soon as a 6-piece TB position is reached.>

Is it impossible for a grandmaster to find an improvement over a tablebase? Are tablebases infallible?>

Technically, the TBs are flawless in terms of providing the quickest mate. Now that you mention it though, I think there were some TB lines checkmate in a path longer than the 50-move draw rule. Such lines are ultra-rare and it has been debated that in the case of advance chess games, the 50-move-draw rule should not apply to a TB forced checkmate.

Jul-27-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <zanshin> - <How much credibility would you give to posts coming from someone who had admitted to voting 0 - 1?>

It depends. Somebody could vote 0-1 out of stupidity or malice, or as a look-at-me gesture of some sort knowing it won't affect the tally. It's amazing what some people will do for attention, even anonymously.

It would be interesting to know which we were dealing with. And I *might* believe an explanation.

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