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Mar-10-07 | | SNiraj: <Innocent till proven guilty, in any case> Touche! |
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Mar-11-07 | | s4life: <whatthefat: <s4life: All those guys were teenagers, bad example.>
And as I said, "Granted, his age is a serious factor, but then who knows how much he has worked during that time."> Yes, I saw that... and that's why I said they are bad examples.. those kids got a sudden increase in their ELO not because they were working harder just prior to that point, but as a result of a natural development of their chess skills, something that only happens when you are a kid/teenager. <whattefat:Your opinion means no more than the next person's without any evidence. People would do best to hold their opinions until there has been a reasonable investigation.> Why the hostility?
I never said my opinions were better than the next person's BTW. Also, this is a web forum, not a jury, lol... opinions based on the current information available are as valid for the purpose of discussion in a forum. |
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Mar-11-07 | | whatthefat: <s4life>
It's not hostility. You gave your opinion on a matter none of us know very much about, and I pointed that out. Nothing personal. If I'd wanted to be personal, I'd have accused you of cheating, since I know about as much about you as you do about Singh. |
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Mar-12-07 | | s4life: <whattefat: It's not hostility.> Ok. w/e, I thought I was being told to shut up and just voice my opinions about the matter as soon as it becomes a moot point. <If I'd wanted to be personal, I'd have accused you of cheating, since I know about as much about you as you do about Singh.> Really?... some people in this site use so much rethorical and/or fallacious arguments.. ah well. Or was that a joke? Answer any of these then:
Do I wear a hat while playing chess in tournaments?
Do I have a very close training partner that has been caught cheating?
Did he wear a hat when he was caught cheating?
Did the cheating device was hidden in his hat?
Did I stop winning games as often, after people made sure I wasn't cheating?
Have you gone through a few of my most important victories and realized how closely they resemble computer play? If you knew at least that about me, I am sure you could have an opinion about the chances that I am cheating. |
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Mar-12-07 | | whatthefat: <s4life>
<Did I stop winning games as often, after people made sure I wasn't cheating?> He did have a dip in form, but then he has been playing well again. <Have you gone through a few of my most important victories and realized how closely they resemble computer play?> This to me is the crucial point, and nobody as far as I know has done any such analysis. Petrosian's comments on the matter are simply bizarre. I see a bunch of wild accusations on the game pages, but nothing of substance. If you do wish to argue that he is using an engine, a good start would be explaining how Humpy held him to a 0.00 eval to the 41st move of D P Singh vs Koneru, 2006. Maybe he is cheating, maybe he isn't. I don't feel prepared to pass judgment without some real information (some typically sensationalist chessbase journalism hardly counts). My point is, clearly I can bring you onto the defensive by accusing you of cheating without any real basis. How is it fair to do the same to him? |
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Mar-12-07 | | sapfy: <whatthefat: <Have you gone through a few of my most important victories and realized how closely they resemble computer play?> This to me is the crucial point, and nobody as far as I know has done any such analysis.> From todays issue of Chess Today (http://www.chesstoday.net/): From a letter from the Chess Players Association of India: "As you all are well aware, most of the Indian Chess Players who have gone through Mr. D.P. Singh's games from National A 2006 held at Vizag suspect that he was getting external help during his games. Most of the top players including many GMs and IMs have studied his games individually and also in a group and found that after theory all his moves matched with Deep Junior 9!!" Alex Baburin's response:
"I had a quick look at the games (you can see them in our database) – indeed there are strange moments – for example when Mr. Singh wastes tempi, which makes no sense – except for the fact that for some reason Junior suggests those moves! BTW, I used Junior 8, not Junior 9." |
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Mar-12-07 | | s4life: <whatthefat: My point is, clearly I can bring you onto the defensive by accusing you of cheating without any real basis. How is it fair to do the same to him?> Well, you can accuse me of anything you want.. I am pretty sure you'd make a fool out of yourself, given that you don't even know my name :). But I see what you are saying... "innocent until proven guilty" and I concurr. It's NOT the case that we don't know ANYTHING about this guy as you are trying to make it look like though. The circumstancial evidence is just a tad short of damning. We know answers to all the questions I gave you in my last post -thanks <sapfy>, that was timely ;) -. That should be enough for an informed opinion... do you agree? |
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Mar-12-07 | | Akavall: <Most of the top players including many GMs and IMs have studied his games individually and also in a group and found that after theory all his moves matched with Deep Junior 9!!"> What all the games? or just some games? The above statement could mean nothing if we are talking about two quick games, for example, or two games where opponents didn't give Singh hard enough 'puzzles' to solve. Also, "his moves matched with Deep Junior 9" doesn't mean a whole anyway, <sneaky> explained that very well on earlier pages here. In any case, I would like to see those games.
<for example when Mr. Singh wastes tempi, which makes no sense> Sometimes a human can waste a tempo due to oversight, sometimes humans make moves that make no sense. Again, I would like to see that game. |
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Mar-12-07 | | whatthefat: <sapfy>
Thanks for that. It's still just anecdotal though isn't it? I'd like to see some concrete examples, rather than vague comments about similarities. Study any strong player's games with the same intention in mind, and such correlations will appear. Whether they're of significance is another thing altogether. After all, humans do nothing better than find patterns. |
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Mar-12-07 | | csmath: <If you do wish to argue that he is using an engine, a good start would be explaining how Humpy held him to a 0.00 eval to the 41st move of D P Singh vs Koneru, 2006.> This is not unusual at all though it looks that way to you because you are a chess patzer.
A grandmaster coming armed with theory and solid principles of game can hold its own against computer engine for a long time, in many cases it can hold a draw. It happened many times in the past and it is no different now. |
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Mar-12-07
 | | JointheArmy: <csmath> Although I don't believe D P Singh cheats, you have a point. For those who don't believe me, its surprising how long GM's can hold their own against computers and draw against them especially when its not running dual processors. I know chess patzers like myself can hold their own against Fritz sometimes as well. Give me 10 games with white and I guarantee you I'll draw at least once with Fritz at any time control above 5 minutes. |
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Mar-12-07 | | whatthefat: <csmath: This is not unusual at all though it looks that way to you because you are a chess patzer.> Sorry. I forgot I'm in the presence of a self-declared genius. Don't worry about any sort of reasonable discussion. After all, some education could tarnish your perfect mind. |
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Mar-12-07 | | square dance: <Give me 10 games with white and I guarantee you I'll draw at least once with Fritz at any time control above 5 minutes.> what is your rating, and what version of fritz are you talking about? |
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Mar-12-07 | | geraldo8187: for those people who say singh's lackluster performances recently prove that he was cheating, i'd just like to say that it is a little harder to concentrate when you get searched before every game and you know that people will be looking at every one of your moves with suspicion and plugging it into a computer to see if it matches |
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Mar-13-07 | | amuralid: <geraldo8187> the proof is not *only* in his recent games. I know a few players from India who firmly believe that he has been cheating. From what I heard players have seen something suspicious but have been unable to get the authorities in at the exact moment. I understand that there was (or is depending on how you look at it)some room that he could be not guilty, but based on what was on the ground it seemed enough to launch an enquiry. <whatthefat> LOL. That ought to be a QOTD someday !!! |
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Mar-13-07 | | Larsker: Colonel: I even took her to see India.
Basil Fawlty: Oh really?
Colonel: Yes, at the Oval. |
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Mar-13-07 | | Tactic101: Here's a little report from Chessbase, for those who haven't seen it. http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail... |
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Mar-13-07 | | SNiraj: D.P. has got off scot free. Hope that this is the end of the cheating allegations! |
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Mar-14-07 | | samsal27: <And his best result this 2nd Kalkota Open where he is 14-26> This is the result that he got after having been checked by an ENT specialist. He delivered when the chips were down and finally that is all that counts! |
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Jun-25-07 | | samsal27: DP finished rather poorly in the National 'B', I am told. In one game he was crushed by IM Anup Deshmukh and finally could not make it to the National 'A' wherein he did spectacularly last year. |
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Jul-31-07 | | csmath: Singh was 3rd seed in the National B, due to his rating and he could not make first 30 for the national A. He made 6.5 out of 13, good enough for 134th place in this tournament. This speaks volume and it is on par with his performance before "Umakant Sharma incident." |
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Jul-31-07 | | csmath: He did escape from being caught but there is little doubt that his 2600 performances are not going to be repeated as long as people are aware of his "technological enhancements" and as long as he is getting checked before the games. |
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Dec-11-07 | | Gallicrow: Another less than stellar performance from D P Singh at the 2007 Commonwealth Championships (http://www.delhichess.com/), scoring 4.5 / 10 for a 2097 tournament rating. Strange how he fails to perform like an IM now that he is being watched carefully. |
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Dec-28-07 | | samsal27: <Strange how he fails to perform like an IM now that he is being watched carefully> Is it really strange or is it that the truth is out now? |
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Jan-25-11 | | Maatalkko: D.P. Singh: Where is he now?
http://ratings.fide.com/id.phtml?ev...
If you forget July 2005 to July 2008, you see he's a very stable low 2300's player. Which is scary, since that means he was most likely cheating without being conclusively caught. |
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