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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 15 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| May-02-08 | | ughaibu: If Chessmetrics is to be believed, 13.a3 was played by Gheoghiu before Fischer: Gheorghiu vs Uhlmann, 1967 |
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May-02-08
 | | Fusilli: <littlefermat>, thanks for the quotes. The source for Wade's quote has to be wrong, though (Chess Life Nov 1966), if the game was played in 1967. Was it Nov 1967? |
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| May-02-08 | | Resignation Trap: <ughaibu> and <Fusilli> This was a round three game. But... Due to arrangements to accommodate Fischer, it was played October 15, 1967, one day <before> the other players began round one. Other games from round three were played October 18. |
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| May-03-08 | | ughaibu: Okay, but the Gheorghiu game appears to have been played in January. |
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| May-03-08 | | eyalbd: I have M60MG and this game is not listed in the book. The source for the comment on 12. a3 must be something else (or else one of the memorable games forgotten in a subsequent edition :=) ) |
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| May-03-08 | | littlefermat: <Fusilli> <eyalbd> Ack! Thanks for pointing that out. I have a book that quoted Fischer and Wade, but I copied the wrong cited sources. Anyways, the correct source for Fischer's comment on move 13 is the following: Boy's Life, June 1968.
And the Robert Wade quote:
Robert G. Wade, Sousse 1967, Nottingham: The Chess Player, 1968, pg 20. Thanks for catching that! |
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| May-09-08 | | Sem: Steinitz the Second! |
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| Aug-14-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: Well this is an interesting game, but I thought Kings Indian Attack was supposed to be launched by black against white's king?? 23. Bf6 is a great move, I spent some time analysing what happens if it is taken with 23...gxf6 24.exf6, Kh8 25. Bf5! exf5 26. Re7, Qd8 27 Rxd7, Qd8 28. Rxf7, Qg8 29.R g7,Qxg7
30. fxg7+, Kxg7
31. Qxf5, gives Q+2P against R+N+B
31...Ra7 (seems best for black) and white can continue 32. Qg5+ with good attacking chances against the exposed black king, Re1 and Ne4 get white's pieces in action quickly and black's forces remain on the queenside. Master Chess (32 bit 20 MHz) evaluates this position as +1.1 so there is a concrete advantage for white if the bishop is taken. |
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| Aug-14-08 | | micartouse: <Well this is an interesting game, but I thought Kings Indian Attack was supposed to be launched by black against white's king??> I don't have that impression. It seems in master play that White attacks more often on kingside and Black is more likely to advance on the queenside. Like a reverse KID. You could have a reverse Samisch with ... f6 aiming for an attack against the White king, but I don't think this is common at all. |
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| Aug-14-08 | | MaxxLange: <Woody Wood Pusher> The "King's Indian Attack" is a reversed KID: White plays Nf3, d3, g3, Bg2, etc. A lot of its devotees play it by transposition against the French or against Sicilians with ...e6 Why is there no "Queen's Indian Attack"? |
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| Aug-15-08 | | drukenknight: as at least two of us have mentioned over the past 5 years: 26...Bb7 is obvious and needs some analysis. |
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| Aug-15-08 | | RookFile: <MaxxLange: Why is there no "Queen's Indian Attack"? > There is, it's just called Zukertort's opening. |
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| Aug-15-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: Interestingly the Master Chess (32 bit 20 MHz) prefers 29. Qh6, Qf8 30. hxg6,Qxh6 31. Rxh6, fxg6 (giving a +3.8 eval after 19 hours!!) After 32. Bxe6+, Kf8 33. Bxc8, Bxc8 34. cxd3 Nb3 black can resign (+3.5) The thing about 29. Bg2 is that black can play 29...Qf8 and throw a spanner in the works of Fischer's combination! White is left to play 30. hxg6, fxg6 31. Be4,dxc2 32.Bxg6, c1Q 33. Rxc1, Rxc1 + 34. Kg2, hxg6 and 35. Rh8+, Kf7 36. Rxf8, Kxf8 37. Qxc1 and this leads to approximately the same balance as before (+3.4 eval) It is still a decisive advantage of course, but black does stumble into Fischer's combinations a lot in this game. |
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| Aug-15-08 | | Woody Wood Pusher: 26...Bb7 seems like Black's last chance to hold together. I analyzed 27. Re1, Qf8 28. Be7,Qe8 29.Rab1,Qc6 with the MC and it gives +0.5. White still has a definite edge but Black is not yet forced to lose massive amounts of material and has some counter play it seems. The reason I don't count this as one of Fischer's greatest games is because his opponent is way too weak, his position is terrible largely through his own making rather than anything Fischer forces on him. You can tell just playing through it black is no serious threat to white and must be at least a couple of hundred elo below him. Does anybody know what black's rating was at the time? |
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| Aug-15-08 | | waustad: It is interesting that Robert Wade is still causing controversy now for being too old in a tournament. |
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Sep-26-08
 | | matey: Fischer's comment on 13.a3: "Believe it or not, I actually spent more time on this innocuous push (15 minutes) than on any other move in the game! I didn't want to allow Black to get in ...a3 thereby creating 'holes' on c3 and a3. On the other hand, by stopping to meet his positional threat I am forced to postpone my own schemes for at least one move. Chess is a matter of delicate judgement, knowing when to punch and how to duck." |
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| Sep-26-08 | | CharlesSullivan: Fischer's 13.<a3> was strangely foreshadowed in Vukovic's "The Art of Attack in Chess" (first published in 1965). Fischer, reportedly the best-read player in history, must have scrutinized this book and probably knew this study (pp. 112-114 in the "Focal-points" chapter in the 2007 reprint by Everyman Chess of the 1998 algebraic edition) which looks like this after 6...a4:
click for larger view
Vukovic continues 7.<a3!> and writes, "Otherwise Black obtains good prospects with ...a3." Fischer probably saw this move and thought it made a lot of sense. But the similarity between Vukovic's study and Fischer's attack becomes even more eerie after the study's continuation: 7...bxc3 8.bxc3 Na5 9.Qg5 Nb3 10.Re1 Rc7 11.Kg2 Raa7 12.Reh1 Rab7 13.Rh4 Rd7
click for larger view
Compare the position in the Fischer game after Black's 29th move:
click for larger view
The study continues 14.Rf4 Rdc7 15.hxg6 fxg6 and now a pre-echo of Fischer's queen sacrifice clinches the win: <16.Qxg6+!> hxg6 17.Rh8+ Kf7 18.Bd8+. |
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| Sep-26-08 | | notyetagm: <CharlesSullivan: Fischer's 13.<a3> was strangely foreshadowed in Vukovic's "The Art of Attack in Chess" (first published in 1965). Fischer, reportedly the best-read player in history, must have scrutinized this book and probably knew this study (pp. 112-114 in the "Focal-points" chapter in the 2007 reprint by Everyman Chess of the 1998 algebraic edition) which looks like this after 6...a4:> Wow, I never knew that. Excellent point, the similarity between the ending of this famous Fischer win and the study you mention in Art Of Attack. |
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| Sep-26-08 | | CharlesSullivan: <notyetagm> Your nice comment makes me feel that you MUST be a GM! |
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| Sep-26-08 | | notyetagm: <CharlesSullivan: <notyetagm> Your nice comment makes me feel that you MUST be a GM!> Not yet.
:-)
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| Jan-05-09 | | Eyal: <Woody Wood Pusher: Interestingly the Master Chess (32 bit 20 MHz) prefers 29. Qh6, Qf8 30. hxg6,Qxh6 31. Rxh6, fxg6 (giving a +3.8 eval after 19 hours!!) After 32. Bxe6+, Kf8 33. Bxc8, Bxc8 34. cxd3 Nb3 black can resign (+3.5) The thing about 29. Bg2 is that black can play 29...Qf8 and throw a spanner in the works of Fischer's combination!> 29...Qf8 30.Be4 dxc2 31.hxg6 fxg6 32.Bxg6 hxg6 33.Rh8+ Kf7 34.Rxf8+ Rxf8 35.Qh6 with Qg7+ or Qh7+ to follow looks completely crushing - certainly no less strong than the 29.Qh6 line. <26...Bb7 seems like Black's last chance to hold together. I analyzed 27. Re1, Qf8 28. Be7,Qe8 29.Rab1,Qc6 with the MC and it gives +0.5. White still has a definite edge but Black is not yet forced to lose massive amounts of material and has some counter play it seems.> Instead of Re1, 27.Rg4 is more consistent - to be followed simply by h5, Rh4, f4, g4, f5 etc. Black doesn't seem able to generate any real counterplay against this. |
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| Jan-05-09 | | Eyal: <ughaibu: Instead of Ra7 wouldn't Rc7 be better? Black can then defend the long diagonal by Bb7 without blocking the rook's sideways action [in the line 29...Bb7 30.hxg6 fxg6 31.Rxh7!]> <keypusher: I got lazy and showed it to Fritz. 28...Rc7 is a good idea, defending against 29 Bg2. Fritz suggests 29 Qh6! Qf8 30 Qd2! Bc4 (defending e6. 30...Nc4 loses to 31 hg! fg 32 Bxe6+) 31 Rxd4 (threatening Rxc4, and Black doesn't have a good defense).> 
click for larger viewThis sophisticated computer line may justify a bit more elaboration. After 31.Rxd4, White actually has a double threat: both 32.hxg6 fxg6 33.Rxc4! followed by Bxe6+ in case of a recapture; and 32.hxg6 fxg6 33.Bg2 (here too) - now, if the rook retreats along the 8th rank the knight on a5 is left unprotected, and if it moves along the a-file it allows Rd8, while Bd5 is met by Rxd5! with the same idea as Rxc4; that's why moves like 31...Qe8 or 31...Rc6, defending e6, can't save Black. Finally, 31...Nc6 leaves the bishop undefended and thus also allows 32.Rxc4 - Black can regain an exchange by 32...Nxe5, but 33.Bxe5 (33.Rxc7?? Nf3+) Rxc4 34.cxd3 looks hopeless for him in the long run. |
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| Jan-13-09 | | traction: Any idea why fischer played Bg2 first? |
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Feb-20-09
 | | Jarman: I have no idea, especially because after 29. Bg4 he would have had a forced mate in 14 moves. And I am amazed nobody has pointed that out yet after five pages of discussion. |
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| Mar-03-09 | | The Lone Banana: < traction: Any idea why Fischer played Bg2 first?> So that 33. ... Kxg6 could be met with 34. B-e4 mate. |
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