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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 1812 OF 1812 ·
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| May-21-13 | | diceman: <lamont: ###
diceman ~
The first B/klyn apt Regina shlepped Bobby
ca. aet. 6 to 10590 Union Street>
Thanks lamont. |
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| May-21-13 | | voyager39: IMHO you can't isolate his Chess from his life. His genius wouldn't have been denied to us so abruptly otherwise. The world did deserve Fischer vs Karpov. |
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| May-21-13 | | diceman: <voyager39:
The world did deserve Fischer vs Karpov.>
It didnt "deserve" it enough to agree to his demands as champion. |
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May-21-13
 | | AylerKupp: <voyager39> I hope that you can isolate Fischer's chess from his life. As far as chess was concerned, Fischer was a genius and an artist, and he produced many chess masterpieces for our enjoyment. And, like many artists in other fields, his personal life and behavior left a lot to be desired according to the norms of society at that time. We are able to enjoy VanGogh's work despite his many bouts of mental illness, ignore Michelangelo's lack of personal hygiene and Tesla's eccentricities, as well as Wagner's rampant anti-Semitism. And, for that matter, we are able to enjoy Alekhine's games without considering his alcoholism and cooperation with the Nazis. We should be able to do something similar for Fischer. But neither Fischer nor Karpov owed the world anything. It is a great disappointment to all of us chess fans that the match did not take place, but we were not <entitled> to it. Neither did we deserve additional games from Fischer, although I'm sure that we are all disappointed that they did not occur. |
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May-21-13
| | AylerKupp: <diceman> And what right does any champion have, including Fischer, to make demands on the organization that is responsible for organizing the WC match? Suggestions, yes. Requests, yes. And certainly discussions and, hopefully, compromises. But non-negotiable demands? No, Fischer had no right to make any. And, BTW, Fischer made 179 demands with regards to the 1972 WC Match, from the size and color of the board and pieces, his chair, lighting, proximity of the fans to the stage, etc., and FIDE agreed to 177 of them. At the last moment FIDE agree to the 178th demand, that the match consist of an unlimited number of games, draws not counting. But they did not agree to his 179th demand, that the champion retain his title in case of a 9-9 score. I have previously said that I think that FIDE should have agreed to this condition also, since there was ample precedent for it, Steinitz vs. Gunsberg in 1890 (Best of 20 games or first to win 10. In case of 9-9 tie, Steinitz would retain his title); Lasker vs. Schlecter in 1910 (Best of 10 games, Lasker to retain his title in case of tie), and all the FIDE 24-game WC matches from 1951 to 2000 (Champion to retain title in case of tie). But FIDE didn't agree to this 179th demand, possibly out of simple pique at all of Fischer's demands and possibly anticipating additional demands from Fischer once his original 179 demands were met. Too bad for chess lovers everywhere. As I said in my previous reply to <voyager49>, the world didn't "deserve" a Fischer vs. Karpov WC Match any more than it "deserved" any other WC Match. But to imply that the world didn't "deserve" the match as a result of a failure to agree to Fischer's demands as a champion is a gross simplification and misrepresentation of the facts. |
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| May-21-13 | | diceman: <AylerKupp: <diceman> And what right does any champion have, including Fischer, to make demands on the organization that is responsible for organizing the WC match? Suggestions, yes. Requests, yes. And certainly discussions and, hopefully, compromises. But non-negotiable demands? No, Fischer had no right to make any.> Well then congratulations <AylerKupp:>, you got your wish. We lost Fischer and Fischer vs. Karpov, but at least FIDE
was spared. |
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May-21-13
 | | keypusher: <diceman: <AylerKupp: <diceman> And what right does any champion have, including Fischer, to make demands on the organization that is responsible for organizing the WC match? Suggestions, yes. Requests, yes. And certainly discussions and, hopefully, compromises. But non-negotiable demands? No, Fischer had no right to make any.> Well then congratulations <AylerKupp:>, you got your wish. We lost Fischer and Fischer vs. Karpov, but at least FIDE was spared.> Fischer was never going to play anyone. As he demonstrated by 1) stopping work on chess
2) <not> <playing> <anyone>, in or out of FIDE, for 20 years and then playing Spassky a dozen years after Spassky ceased being relevant and then <not> <playing> <anyone> until he died. If you want to know why Fischer didn't play, your search begins and ends with Robert James Fischer. Amazing that something so obvious has to be written. |
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May-21-13
 | | TheFocus: I personally do not believe that Fischer ever planned on playing after he won the title. But, certainly not after 1975. FIDE agreed to many of his demands because organizers had been giving into his demands for years. Sure, some of his demands made for better conditions for players, but let someone try that nowadays and they would find their invitations would drop to zero. And rightly so. |
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May-21-13
| | AylerKupp: <diceman> It was not my wish to either "lose" Fischer or the Fischer vs. Karpov match. On the contrary, it saddens me greatly to have lost the opportunity to see the games that would have resulted from the Fischer vs. Karpov match (which I suspect would have been of excellent quality) as well as additional Fischer games post-match, regardless of the outcome of the match. But it was Fischer who made the non-negotiable demands and decided to stick to his principles no matter what. When you do that there is always a risk that the other side will not go along, but Fischer was willing to accept the consequences. Fischer took that risk and we were all losers because of it. In the end, it was Fischer's choice to both "lose" the match as well as "lose" himself by refusing to play additional high-level games until his match with Spassky in 1992. I neither condemn nor applaud Fischer for his decision; it was his decision to insist that all his demands be acquiesced to and he was entitled to make that decision and stick to it. Nor was it my interest to "spare" FIDE. I think made it quite clear that I thought that FIDE should have agreed to Fischer's last demand, that in case of a 9-9 tie that the champion (Fischer) retains the title. Whether this gave the champion too much of an advantage or not I will let others decide; I just wanted to point out that there seemed to be ample precedent for such a condition in previous WC matches. I do think that FIDE has brought a period of stability to the World Chess Championship from 1948 to the present. Have all their decisions and actions been proper and correct? Of course not. Would a different organization with a different structure and approach be better? Perhaps, or perhaps not. But I do think that the World Chess Championship has been in better shape after FIDE was in control than before, where each champion would effectively dictate the terms of a WC match. The only points that I was really trying to make were: 1. The champion (or for that matter, the challenger) had no <right> to make demands. Of course they could (and even should) make them, and FIDE owed it to both of them to seriously consider them and make appropriate changes to the match conditions. I think that they did that for the 1975 match, just like they did for the 1972 match. 2. We did not <deserve> either the Fischer vs. Karpov WC match or additional high-level Fischer games. Sure, it would have great if we could have had both, but we had no <right> to insist that either Fischer and Karpov produced those games. |
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| May-21-13 | | diceman: <TheFocus:
but let someone try that nowadays and they would find their invitations would drop to zero.>…kind of a sad statement.
Lets see who watches chess when the greats are chased out of it.
(and others don’t even try)
I don’t think Carlsen will be around long. |
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May-21-13
| | TheFocus: <diceman> I'm talking about the kinds of unreasonable demands that Fischer made, not the ones that improved player's conditions. It looks like I mixed ideas there. It doesn't read the way I meant it. |
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| May-22-13 | | RFW3: <TheFocus: I personally do not believe that Fischer ever planned on playing after he won the title. But, certainly not after 1975.> I don't believe he ever intended to play the match against Karpov either. Even if FIDE had given in to the 9-9 provision he demanded, I believe Fischer would have come up with something else to throw at them. |
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| May-22-13 | | lamont: ###
AylerKupp ~
Yr/ fav/ LvB's 4th's slow mvt/ was volitionally (yes)
based on our heart's iambic beating rhythm.
(listen: taDUM, taDUM, taDUM (see ??
&&& 4th's opening Adagio is mimed in the 9th's opening.
(...misterioso...)
Qt/#14 ...begins... w/ (long) adagio mvt (1st time ever happening Consider:
Does anyone now remember Chopin was anti-Semitic ??
Wagner sticks... only because Evil adored him.
Bee/ wrote his "6th" piano concerto when a Viennese critic raved
that his violin concerto "...just sings for the violin."
Bobby & Ludwig cd/ both be ball-busters... in their own fashion. (smiley) ***
TheFocus/diceman/AylerKupp + NOT harryect ~
Attempting to provide claritas:
1) FIDE & the IOC both reeek/ed of corruption-in-excelsis. 2) Bobby's Principles were non-negotiable. (Real ones are never.) 3) Beethoven's Principles were non-negotiable.
4) Because of 2 & 3:
BOTH WERE THE FIRST TRUE PROFESSIONALS IN THEIR FIELDS.
(Bobby had no day job :: Ludwig was not owned by any royal patron.) (Bach's patron commanded him to crank out cantatas
(for every day of the year, & JSB rolled over for him.
(He had to... to support 14 kids.
(The word "prolific" comes to mind...
3) Principle #179 was not new (see 'bitzer above
4) For correct answer resolving alll Fischer/Karpov ANGST-ST-ST
re/ "demand"/"deserve"/whatsodamn... go back to #1 & #2. &&&&&&&& Th-Th-Th-That's all, Folks !! |
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| May-22-13 | | lamont: ###
3) & 4) shd/ be 5) & 6)
---they got lost in revision |
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| May-22-13 | | lamont: ###
AylerKupp & Eavesdroppers ~
The BESTEST biog/ of van Beethoven izzz
the absoluuutely :amaaazing
"Beethoven: Universal Composer"
by Edmond Morris
Get it in Hardcover from Amazon
... starting at $0.01 (!!!!!!!!
Thizziz like felony robbery !!
Yr/ move... |
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| May-22-13 | | diceman: <keypusher:
Fischer was never going to play anyone. As he demonstrated by 1) stopping work on chess>
…another who was privy to Fischer’s day to day routine. …and of course, the story among Fischer haters goes he was “afraid” of Karpov.
Gee, I think you’d need to analyze Karpov’s games to be afraid of him. <2) <not> <playing> <anyone>, in or out of FIDE, for 20 years and then playing Spassky a dozen years after Spassky ceased being relevant and then <not> <playing> <anyone> until he died.> …and being clairvoyant, we knew that in 1974.
<after Spassky ceased being relevant> …as long as you consider $5 million “not” relevant.
(maybe one day we will see the games,
I understand the press didn’t want to cover “non-relevant” players) Of course, its impossible that not getting what he wanted as champion
had anything to do with the next 20 years of Fischer’s life. Absolutely impossible. |
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May-22-13
 | | harrylime: These pages just about sum up this site !
Exploding with a%se licking toads and sychophants so much it's embarrassing... Wonder what Fischer would think looking on these pages .. lol lol |
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May-22-13
| | TheFocus: <harry> <Wonder what Fischer would think looking on these pages> Well, the first thing he would do is ask you to leave permanently. That would clean the pages up. And you could take your LOLs with you. |
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May-22-13
| | harrylime: The first thing he'd do is tell people like you to get lost. And the dad thing is you don't even realise that. ... LOL |
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May-22-13
| | TheFocus: <harry> I am sure this would be Bobby's message for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgvM... |
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May-22-13
| | harrylime: Listen <focy> this is hitting the zzzzs already so I'm not gonna start tuning into your YouTube fetishes lol These pages are drowning in sychophants... .. Just admit it .. .. LOL And RJF would rebel against this... lol |
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May-22-13
| | TheFocus: That was the Rolling Stones <Get Off Of My Cloud>. Something Bobby would say to you. |
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May-22-13
| | harrylime: Well I love Keef.
I love Mick even more.
And I love The Rolling Stones even more ...
As for RJF well you can't speak for him and hopefully deep down I'm thinking you realise this ... AS for Sychophants and Toadylickers on this site tho ?? It's positively crawling with them.. LOL |
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| May-23-13 | | lamont: ###
diceman ~
'Toly himself opined -honestly- that
Bobby wd/ beat him in a match.
He spoke on the public record.
WHY
dont our rabid FischerHaters take their Prom Queen at his own word ?? We know Principle 179 wuznt new but recycled
but Russia easily pressed FIDE
not to give in to this historical deand,
knowing Fischer wdnt waffle his Principles, so that
'Toly wd/ win the WC be default.The rewt quoted her... mere drama. That was Th Rooskies long game, so that
one corrupt group facilitated another corrupt group, & as Machiavelli wd/ bless this cojining of twin evils:
"Thus things proceed in their Circles,
& the Empire (Chess) is maintained.
Vide Super/See Above: Fischer/Karpov
was not brewing in a vacuum...
the FIDE/Russia Axis had the Recipe-Fix in
long before Principle 100 was breached.
As I sd/ before, Korchnoi sd/ if he won the WC the KGB wd/ kill him. Bobby knew that if he disgraced Russia by trashing Karpov, that wd/ be too much even for Ruissis not to poison Bobby
by radioisotopes before, during or after playing,
y
just ezzzackly as they did w/ the 1st democratically elected
President of Ukraine - Poisoned...narrowly escaping death,
but left w/ disfiguring facial scars.
They killed Raoul Wallenstein...slowly.
Killing undesirables/irritants is S.O.P & accepted.
Today we do it easily w/ drones w/ the same lack of checks. {France is buying Israeli -superior to USA models.
{Stephen hawking breathes via an custom Israeli chip
***
AylerKupp ~
So whaddaya think of the Beethoven stuff ??
In a very late opus he set various folk/ethnic melodies--including HEBREW !! 11 Proky wrote an overture on Hebrew melodies. &&&&cet/
Bobby & Victor knew this... |
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| May-23-13 | | lamont: ###
Bobby & Victor know this
strayed from a re-write.
It relates to their knowing
the KGB will snuff them if they
win or get close to a win for the WC.
Remember: Putin is KGB.
Mother Russia's heart has a KGB pacemeker. |
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Later Kibitzing> |
