| Oct-25-03 | | Pawnographer: Am looking for adequate plans/variations as Black against The Torre Attack and Colle System formations. White's plans are simple and strategic but I am at a loss for finding active plans for Black and am reaching positions that I don't really feel comfortable with. A big dilemma is even trying to make up my mind whether to fianchetto the dark-squared bishop or not. Rather than sift through thousands of tedious games, I was looking for some input on what your personal experiences have been playing the Black side. Any suggestions would be helpful! |
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| Oct-25-03 | | Shadout Mapes: Interesting that you bring this up, earlier today I decided to start using the Torre attack. |
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| Feb-23-04 | | ruylopez900: <Pawnographer> Against the Colle System (especially the Zukertort Variation) I would recommend trading off Bishops, this will save you trouble in the long run! |
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| Feb-23-04 | | Helloween: Against the Colle System, play 1.d4 d5 2.Nf6 Nf3 3.e3 Bf5, when White has nothing better than 4.Bd3, after which either 4...Bxd3 or 4...e6 give Black simple equality as in Alekhine vs Euwe, 1935 |
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| Aug-29-04 | | themindset: against the colle i often play a quick ...b6 followed by ...Ba6 and exchange the lightsquared bishops that way. not only does it totally frustrate white's strategy, it will usualy take them out of book too. |
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| Dec-10-04 | | drukenknight: an interesting line, starts of like slav, but then it starts to look like a carokann. It's funny how few games start this way, but if you play amateurs on the internet you will probably see white bring out the 2 knights over and over, instead of doing c4 and that catalan stuff. 1. d4 Nf6
2. Nf3 c6 (only 40 games in the data base! Funny, you could probably see this formation 40 times a nite if you steered for it.) 3. Nc3 (a novelty in this data base?!) d5
4. Bg5 Bf5
5. Bxf6 gxf6
6. Na4 Qa5+
7. Nc3 e5?! (e6)
8. Nh4!? exd4
9. Nxf5 dxc3
10 bxc3? and got hammered 0-1, its supposed to continue 10. b3 Nd7
11. e3 O-O-O
12. Be2 and black seems to have slight edge.
white got fooled waiting for the other B to come out and finally he came out and delivered mate I think, its probably not clear from that line but it gets bad after his 10th move. |
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| Jul-08-05 | | bomb the bishop: I enjoy playing 2..c5 in this position to achieve a Benoni |
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| Jul-25-05 | | BaranDuin: <Helloween: Against the Colle System, play 1.d4 d5 2.Nf6 Nf3 3.e3 Bf5, when White has nothing better than 4.Bd3, after which either 4...Bxd3 or 4...e6 give Black simple equality as in Alekhine vs Euwe, 1935 > I am not sure. I have always had good results with 4. c4 followed by Qb3 to exploit the 'weak' b7 pawn. |
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| Jul-25-05 | | Dudley: I agree: 4.c4 is better than 4.Bd3. Another line that calls for 4.c4 is 3...Nc6. White has to be ready to switch into a QGD when he is trying to play the Colle if he wants some kind of advantage out of the opening. On the other hand, it's hard for Black to get very aggressive against the Colle. If White wants to play that solid there is not much Black can do about it. Most of the more dynamic Black defenses depend on White playing 2.c4 instead of 2. Nf3, in my opinion. |
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Jul-25-05
 | | Eric Schiller: <Dudley> Yes, c4 and Qb3 is generally indicated when Black brings out the light-square bishop to the kingside. 4.Bd3 is definitely an inferior move. For Black, a basic Tarrasch formation is a good idea. With the bishop at d6, so Black can bring the knight to defend the kingside via Nc6-e7-g6 or f5 as needed. |
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Jul-26-05
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Of course, going back to 2.Nf3, Black can always play 2...g6, a handy all-purpose defense. 2...d6,, with the idea of either ...Bf5 or ...Bg4, is comparatively unexplored. |
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| Jul-26-05 | | Gameaddict: 1.d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 b5!? is another idea i like to play, gaining space and preparing to take more control over e4 after Bb7. |
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| Jul-26-05 | | Helloween: <Gameaddict> And also preparing b5-b4 in case of Nc3. The flaw with 2...b5!? is the potential weakness of the c5-square and White's a2-a4 thrust. |
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| Oct-03-05 | | soughzin: One player at my club plays the torre attack often. I play 3...c5 and he answers with e4. I'm looking at it with fritz and after 4...Qa5+ 5.Nbd2 it lists cxd as the only book move, at .28 for white. However it tells me Nxe4 is clearly the best move at .79 for black. Is there any reason not to play 5...Nxe4 ? |
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| Oct-28-06 | | soughzin: Wow that was a long time ago my last post. I'm not even near that club anymore. I was kicking around ideas for defense to d4 and I realized one could play a very low theory system of Budapest to d4 c4 and answer d4 Nf3 with Nf6 2...b5. Sure would save some theory eh! Might bring some "unnatural" positions and maybe you wouldn't grow as much as a player but for a few people out there it might be your silver bullet. |
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| Sep-11-07 | | gerard01: I played against this opening last night and drew, but I had a huge spatial advantage in the begining before allowing White to get some counter-play and draw. Still, my opponent was higher rated than me at 1597 to my 1426. |
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| Aug-24-21 | | Stolzenberg: <Jul-26-05 An Englishman: 2. ... d6 ... is comparatively unexplored.> The position after 2. ... d6 is called <Indian Game: Wade-Tartakower Defense>. However one could consider it as an <Old Indian without c4>. |
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| Aug-24-21 | | Bartleby: <Gameaddict: 1.d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 b5!? is another idea i like to play, gaining space and preparing to take more control over e4 after Bb7.> Sort of a reversed "Santasiere's Folly": 1. Nf3 d5 2. b4!? In this position I usually play the Benoni-ish invitation of 2. ...c5, as <bomb_the_bishop> says, and if white accepts with 3. d5 then 3. ...b5!? To get an interesting, unbalanced game without the risks of a main-line Benoni/Benko. Most players, especially "system" players, want to preserve their London/Torre/Colle setup as much as possible so 3. c3 or 3. e3 I see being the norm here in many amateur games. I think then adopting either a reversed Reti or Grunfeld is best with ...g6, ...Bg7, ...O-O, ...b6, ...Bb7, ...Nbd7 and either ...d5 or trying for an ...e5 break with ...d6. Flexible and harmonious. Of course, they may play 3. g3 and try to transpose to some sort of Catalan, but I think just 3. ...cxd4 is already slightly better for black. 4. Nxd4 e5 5. Nb3 d5 or 5. Nf3 Nc6 |
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| Jan-15-23 | | Stolzenberg: 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 d6 was already popular before and during WW1 and was played by strong players as Chigorin, Mieses, Nimzowitsch, Burn, Tartakower, Capablanca, Chajes, Janowski and Schlechter. |
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| Jan-16-23 | | Stolzenberg: In addition to <Bartleby> after <1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 c5> with 3. c4 White could switch to the English Opening, Symmetrical Defence (ECO-Codes A31 - A33). Usual move order is 1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. d4. |
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Mar-29-23
 | | Messiah: I like this opening.
Victory!
-- CG Liberation Front -- |
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Kibitzing
