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Anish Giri vs Magnus Carlsen
"12 Years a Slave" (game of the day Jan-19-2023)
Tata Steel Masters (2023), Wijk aan Zee NED, rd 4, Jan-17
Queen's Indian (E15)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-19-23  Refused: <Incidentally, another topical line in QID with 4.g3 has the <other> bishop move twice after 5.b3 Bb4+ 6.Bd2 Be7 like in Aronian vs Karjakin, 2021>

Altho even in the lines with b3 personally I prefer to move the Bishop back to b7 before giving the check, so that I can play a5, if white play Bd2.

(1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.g3 Ba6 5.b3 Bb7 6.Bg2 Bb4+ 7.Bd2 a5)

Slightly older approach.

Jan-19-23  Refused: <I am no expert in QID, or any opening for that matter. But 7 d5 would have been a pawn sac even if Queen was on d1. For example 7 d5 exd5 8 cxd5 Nxd5/Bxd5 and one minor protects the other. Possibly I am missing some tactics but not obvious to me.>

With the Queen on d1 you can delay the capture on d5 7.d5 exd5 and play 8.Ng1/Nh4 first (too lazy to check which move is better). Now the d5 pawn is pinned. White will recapture on d5 next. White will at some point push e4 to further strengthen his grip on the centre and those positions are just horrible for black. Again the core idea for Black in the QID is to establish some sorta control over the light squares (very Nimzovich like). Fair to say this has not happened here.

With the Queen on c2 those pin tricks do not work (skinned my fair share of fools trying to pull that off in online blitz). As black can now respond to the pin with Nc6! and now the pin is broken and if white plays cxd5 the Knight will jump to b4 forking the Queen and the pawn. And black keeps his extra pawn with a better position.

Jan-19-23  SChesshevsky: <Mayankk: What is the point behind 4...Ba6 and 5...Bb7 ?...>

Think the first is 4...Ba6 offers white 5. b3 then... Bb4+ and white Bd2 is pretty sedate. But 5. Qc2 is the known challenge with ...c5 fully accepting the sharp lines.

After 5. Qc2, black kind of have to do something to challenge the potential monster B on g2. The compensation for the tempo loss appears the pawn up if white pushes d5.

Don't know the latest theory on all this but probably computer says black objectively OK. But practically looks very difficult for black.

Seems a move behind with often hanging Bb7 and compromised center. Result that he often seems scrambling to hold it together.

Really noticed potential problems for black at 2008 Tal Memorial. Where Karpov had two tough losses and even Carlsen lost to Ivanchuk in similar QID Qc2...c5 type play.

Haven't followed it since but guessing must've been some improvements since then. But doesn't seem apparent here.

Jan-19-23  fisayo123: Amazing pun really
Jan-19-23  EphemeralAdvantage: Positional sacrifices of the d pawn seem to be all the rage against the QID nowadays. At has been so since the AlphaZero's emergence in 2017. The Polugaevsky Gambit lead to one of the most impressive wins in the match against Stockfish (1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 b6 4. g3 Bb7 5. Bg2 Be7 6. O-O O-O 7. d5 exd5 8. Nh4 c6 9. cxd5 Nxd5 10. Nf5 is the Gambit)

The whole variation with 12. ... d6 for Black seems to be suspect. The choice to play like this is somewhat bizarre since Carlsen played against this variation and won in Carlsen vs Pelletier, 2008.

Is anyone an expert on the ... Ba6 QID? If so, can you explain to me why would Carlsen chose 12. ... d6 instead of the well analyzed mainline with 12. ... g6?

Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: Nice to see Giri playing with some verve. I hope he finally gets a Tata win. 5 times runner up in his own backyard tournament has got to burn. However, Nodirbek is on a rampage.

In trying to understand the pun, I see its a 2013 film title about a guy who was kidnapped in 1841 and forced to work on a plantation in the South for 12 years.

That is being compared to Giri not winning a classical game against Carlsen for 12 years, the last one back Tata 2011.

Did I get that right?

Jan-19-23  lechacal: <Check It Out : In trying to understand the pun, I see its a 2013 film title about a guy who was kidnapped in 1841 and forced to work on a plantation in the South for 12 years.

That is being compared to Giri not winning a classical game against Carlsen for 12 years, the last one back Tata 2011.

Did I get that right?> Yes

Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: The usual snowflake suspects are out in force. They really, really, really don't understand how feminized they are.
Premium Chessgames Member
  FSR: I agree with OrangeTulip, refused, perfidious, etc.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: There are two camps here: One really likes the pun, the other dislikes the pun. I'm in a third camp: it's just another mediocre pun. Big deal. CG has to come up with 365 of them a year, they can't all be winners. You like the pun, you don't like the pun, fine.

As of <OCF>'s comment about snowflakes and feminized posters <The usual snowflake suspects are out in force. They really, really, really don't understand how feminized they are.>, isn't that being overly sensitive to varying points of view, and therefore "snowflakey" and "feminized", to use a couple of tired adjectives?

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <ohiyuk> is merely picking up the mantle for the fallen 'justice warrior', <spawn of satan>.
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: I'm thinking Girl might not like our pun efforts!


Jan-19-23  generror: Some people really, really, really, REALLY don't understand how masculinized they are. (I hope I, like Neil Breen put in enough really's to get my point across!)

I'm happy I have gotten rid of toxic masculinization (and many other conditioned patterns) in seven hard years of therapy and now I'm just <myself>, keeping well away from people showing the slightest sign of @#$%*&!# machoism. Yes, unfortunately that means I haven't got many friends, but it's the only way to keep my mental hygiene, and I value that above everything else.

Hell, I'm even painting my fingernails if I want to, just because I like it. I just don't care about this male/female @#$%*&!# and I'm so glad I don't. And Ed Wood's my hero -- making <Glen or Glenda>, a film about the right to cross-dress, in darkest McCarthy era, means having balls of space titanium, but of course idiots only see the Angora.

Jan-20-23  Mayankk: Thanks <Refused> and <SChesshevsky>.
Jan-20-23  Mayankk: Hi <Refused>

With the Queen on d1, 7 d5 exd5 8 Ng1/Nh4 looks awfully passive for White. It is down a pawn and has just one well developed piece - the g7 Bishop. I especially dislike the two White Knights - now it is White who seems to offer Black a two move advantage.

Also Black can continue with 8 ... c6 to reinforce the d5 pawn and i don't see an easy way for White to recapture this pawn immediately.

Jan-20-23  Refused: I think we are talking about different positions here, you already pushed c5 to provoke the d5 push, no? If so you can't play c6 to reinforce d5.
Jan-20-23  SChesshevsky: <Ephemeral: ...why would Carlsen choose 12...d6...>

Does look like 12...g6 puts up a better defense. But it does seem a defense which allows whites queen to roam, looks positionally suspect, and is still unsure.

Think Magnus idea is to exchange off the queen and then attempt some sort of counterplay in an attempt toward trying to equalize. Hard to believe he didn't think he was worse at 12. e4.

But also think he also had slim hopes of potential of he could stabilize and with counter play chances. Didn't see the whole broadcast but thought I heard Svidler pretty optimistic for Black sometime shortly after 12...d6. Though with very light analysis. Doubt Magnus was that optimistic.

Main reason might just be that Carlsen's instinct is to go for counter play rather than an unclear mainly defensive, mostly passive defense. Where guys like Karjakin or Leko might lean 12...g6 easily.

Unfortunately, Magnus didn't seem to get a chance to stabilize. Giri pretty precise in his attack. And any chance for counter play fizzled.

Jan-21-23  Mayankk: Hi <Refused>,

Yes my bad. You are right that with the Queen on d1, the d5 pawn capture is more tricky than with the Queen on c2. I am still not fully convinced that this subtlety is worth an additional move like 5 ... Ba6 and 6... Bg7. But thanks for sharing your insights.

Jan-21-23  SChesshevsky: Interesting, fairly lengthy, post game talk. Get the feeling that Magnus still wasn't sure where he went wrong or how he could've improved. Also looks like ...g6 was mentioned and Magnus wasn't enthused about it.

Jan-22-23  EphemeralAdvantage: <SChesshevsky> Yeah you are absolutely right even after the "correct" ... g6 Black is reduced to a mere bystander while white gets to have all the fun. Not a typical Carlsen game for sure.

So a more general question would be: why would Carlsen play the QID in the first place, if he knows that in either mainline (... Bb7 and ... Ba6) he will have to play against d4-d5 pawn sacs that leave black passively defending?

Personally I think this was just a bad call from him. He wanted to play for a win but even for him winning with Black in a highly theoretical opening against one of the best theoreticians in the world is far fetched.

Jan-23-23  SChesshevsky: <Ephemeral: ...Personally I think this was a bad call from him. ...>

I agree 100%. Chances of him losing with KID or even Benko/ Benoni probably much less than this QID line. So why?

Maybe he figured chances are Giri would go b3...Bb4+ Bd2 main play. As more Giri's "way" or because he'd suspect Magnus trick.

Or because of slight case of "Kramnikitis". Where later in his career, Kramnik had a tendency to go for sharp, but arguably unsound, play. Seems it was more for the art of chess than practical result. Magnus has shown same symptoms occasionally. Slighter symptoms and he can get away with more. But bad calls can catch up, even for him.

Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: Giri post game interview:
Jan-25-23  tuttifrutty: Giri is done babysitting. Watch out.
Feb-01-23  ILikeKeres: It's tactical shot after tactical shot in this game by Giri.

I think that 12...d6 may have been too slow, and 12 ... 0-0 may have been better to give up the pawn.

Otherwise, Carlsen just gets run over by the initiative here.

Premium Chessgames Member
  fredthebear: <faustr: Is slavery an amusing subject?>

Slavery is REAL:

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