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Stockfish (Computer) vs AlphaZero (Computer)
AlphaZero - Stockfish Match (2018), London ENG, Jan-18
Spanish Game: Berlin Defense. l'Hermet Variation Berlin Wall Defense (C67)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
May-25-19  YesChess1010: Coool game
May-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I didn't understand the resignation, so I tossed 58. Bxc5 Rxc5 in SF and it spit this out:

1) -6.91 (29 ply) 58...Rxc5 59.e6 Ke7 60.Re1 Be4 61.Nxe4 fxe4 62.Kg1 Kxe6 63.Kf1 c3 64.Ke2 Kf5 65.Rc1 Kxf4 66.Rc2 Rc8 67.Kd1 Ke3 68.Kc1 Kd3 69.Kd1 Kd4 70.Rc1 c2+ 71.Kd2 Rc3 72.Ke2 Rc5 73.Kd2 Rc8 74.Ke2 Rc3 75.Kd2 Rd3+ 76.Ke2


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Surely that's not right. But I don't see a breakthrough.

May-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <OhioChessFan> Stockfish can see it will lose a rook for the c-pawn. Probably there is some kind of resignation parameter which is set to resign when its evaluation falls below a rook.
May-25-19  JustAnotherMaster: wow incredible these engines
May-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I put it in for an hour, and after 42 ply:

1) -16.75 (42 ply) 58...Rxc5 59.e6 Ke7 60.Re1 Be4 61.Nxe4 fxe4 62.Kg1 Kxe6 63.Kf1 Kf5 64.Ke2 c3 65.Ke3 Rd5 66.Rf1 Rd6 67.Ke2 Rd3 68.Ra1 Kxf4 69.Ra2 Ke5 70.Ra8 Rd2+ 71.Ke3 Rxg2 72.Ra5+ Kd6 73.Kxe4 c2 74.Ra6+ Kc5 75.Ra1 Kc4 76.Ke5 Kc3 77.Kf6 Kb2 78.Ra7 c1=Q 79.Kg7 Rf2 80.Rb7+ Ka3 81.Ra7+ Kb3 82.Rb7+ Ka4 83.Ra7+ Kb5 84.Kh7 g2 85.Rb7+ Ka5 86.Rg7 Qb1+ 87.Kg8 g1=Q 88.Rxg1 Qxg1+ 89.Kh7

May-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Comparing the two lines.....Black transposes moves 63 and 64 in the 42 ply line.....doesn't matter. Then comes White's 65th move:


click for larger view

The 42 ply line has White play 65. Ke3 instead of the 29 ply lines 65. Rc1.

<OCF Playing with that line>

Well, clearly, White is totally busted very quickly. Here's the position after Black's 72nd move in the 42 ply line:


click for larger view

I'll have another look at this, and I for sure hate to disagree with an engine, but how in the world is 65. Ke3 an improvement over 65. Rc1. White is totally busted just 7 moves later. White's King moving to the 2nd and 3rd rank invites Rook checks skewering Pawns....White simply wants to hole up and make Black work to Queen a Pawn with a Rook, which is tough work.....I don't see the point of the supposed better 65. Ke3 at all.

May-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Went back to the first diagram and tried it from there. 76...Kc3 seems obvious. And then Black has some mate threats......hmmmmmmm. Maybe 29 plies wasn't enough to see a mate. Did I mess up the diagram? I'll have another look at this tomorrow. I didn't see such an obvious move for Black when I first played it.
May-25-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <OhioChessFan> <Went back to the first diagram and tried it from there. 76...Kc3 seems obvious. And then Black has some mate threats>

Yes, 76...Kc3 and then simply 77...Kb2 and White will lose a rook for the c-pawn, like I said above. Am I wrong?

May-25-19  zborris8: <OCF> Nice one! I think its interesting to walk through deep engine lines step by step to uncover the main ideas in a position. In the game's resignated position, I would have held onto the bishop, but it loses the pawn because of the fork. Did your engine prefer to trade bishops thete, or was that your instinct for the final position?

<58. Ba1 Be3 [-4.09, 23 ply]>

May-26-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <zborris8>
I don't think White can avoid the bishop trade. For example 58. Ba1 <Ba3> prepares 59...Bb2. A computer might instead try to maximize its eval by pawn grabbing first.
Jan-31-20  cormier: 6. Bc6?
Oct-03-20  chessix: Its not hard to see that stockfish is more oriented towards material-snatching than alphazero is.

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