Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
NN vs Vince Grimm
Istanbul (1864), Istanbul TUR
Spanish Game: Morphy Defense. Neo-Archangelsk Variation (C78)  ·  0-1



explore this opening
find similar games 1,408 more games of NN
sac: 9...Nxd4 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: At the top of the page we display the common English name for the opening, followed by the ECO code (e.g. "C78"). The ECO codes are links that take you to opening pages.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-27-14  sfm: Vincent Grimm - strong player who didn't miss out on other things to play with. He was around 64 when this game was played, and died 6 years later.
Oct-27-14  sfm: This is clearly off topic, but checking on Mr. Grimm I saw him mentioned on an amazing list of 5600 lines of one-line historical facts (or they could be) on

E.g. for those wondering if the time they spend on the game is justified it may help to know that over time chess have saved the life of several people.

1157 A danish king saved himself by using a chessboard as a shield.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Oxspawn: 12. Qg1+ then whether Rxg1 or Nxg1
13. Nf2# Smothered mate.
A more challenging Monday than last week since it took me a minute to spot the black bishop on a7! I spent the time trying to find a move to get the black queen out of the way without allowing white to move either king or queen and then forking them. This grim(m) ending for white looks like one of my opening positions. Better go and study how the crash happened.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Oxspawn: <sfm: Vincent Grimm …..He was around 64 when this game was played, and died 6 years later.> A delayed reaction to his win? NN on the other hand lives on to this day.
Oct-27-14  patzer2: White's decisive mistake, leading to this Monday smothered mate tactic puzzle, was 11. Nf3??

Instead, 11. Be3! to = to unclear holds the position and continues a difficult struggle.

One possibility, playing it out with Fritz12, is 11. Be3! Qxh2+ 12. Kf1 Qh1+ 13. Ke2 Qxg2 14. Qc1 Nxf2 15. Rg1 Qxe4 16. Bc2 Qd5 17. Nc3 Qh5+ 18. Kxf2 Qh4+ 19. Kg2 Bxd4 20. Bxd4 Qg4+ 21. Kf1 Qxd4 22. Qg5 Qf6+ 23. Qxf6 gxf6 24. Re1+ Kf8 25. Nd5 d6 26. Rg3 Bd7 27. Nxf6 Be6 28. Bd3 h5 29. Rg5 h4 30. Bf5 Bxf5 31. Rxf5 h3 32. Kg1 h2+ 33. Kh1 Rd8 34. Nh5 to = to unclear.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Bubo bubo: The much-loved smothered mate! The N is not on his usual post h3, but the Ba7 helps out: 12...Qg1+ 13.Rxg1(Nxg1) Nf2#.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Yay! A smothered mate to begin the week. Even though the final position is a smothered mate, there's no windmill of the knight like normal.
Oct-27-14  Chess Dad: A nice little smothered mate.

12...Qg1+ 13. Rxg1 Nf2#

Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: The combination saccing the c6 Knight on d4, playing Qh4 and finally saccing the Queen on g1 allowing mate with either Rxg1 or Nxg1 all stem from Greco in 1620.

click for larger view

NN vs Greco, 1620

I (and I'm sure others on here) have played the same trick OTB (and in a hsndful of blitz games) from a Lopez.

it is a fairly well known opening trap that lays tucked up in the Bc5 lines of the Lopez.

And Yet it did catch a lad in the 2007 Hastings Masters.

click for larger view

A Wilson vs G Dickson, 2007

Oct-27-14  dufferps: Fascinating how NN let this happen - his play SEEMED logigal all along. Once again it was a lurking Bishop - this time at a7 - that allowed the checkmate. Did Vince Gimm plan this way ahead?
Oct-27-14  JTV: Wow,a prime example of smother mate. After move, 8...exd4, white needed to play 9. h3 before taking back in the center. After 9. cxd4 Nxd4. Whites only move was to recapture the knight by 10. Nxd4. but after 10...Qh4 white would have been better to have played 11. Be3. 11. Nf3 spells mate in 3
Oct-27-14  Dagdaletwo: Can black win after 12 P-KR3 ?
My computer does not like this move, but I failed find win for black. Grateful see refutation 12 P-KR3 for white.
Oct-27-14  kevin86: The move has double purposes: black needs to vacate f2 and block g1. the queen sac does both! The king cannot take so the knight of rook has to- and the king's only flight square is gone!
Premium Chessgames Member
  gawain: Surprised to see that an 1864 player is named Vince.

Vincent, sure. But Vince? Seems more modern. Well, live and learn.

Oct-27-14  paavoh: @Dagdaletwo. It seems 12.h3 is an illegal move as the white King is already in check.
Oct-27-14  gars: God save the Mondays and <chrisowen> too, because only he can write such a long gobledygook about a Monday puzzle!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: This is a fascinating little game. As Dufferps says, white seemed to do everything right. So what went wrong for him here?

With Halloween approaching, I think this is all about being scared. In particular, being scared of messy positions.

Some players hate messy positions whilst some relish them. Part of black's strategy was to make the position messier than white wanted it to be.

This is the state of the board after 7...Ng4

click for larger view

White seems such a correct player that I imagine him tutting about this move. Black moves a piece twice in the opening to attack a pawn that is easily defended.

But black's plan is to make white uncomfortable. He starts by targeting f2 - the weakest square in the white camp.

After 8. d4 exd4 ...

click for larger view

... Fritz is saying that white's best is 8. h3 but then he has to be prepared to run the gauntlet of 8. h3 Nxf2 9. Kxf2 dxc3+ 10. Kf1 cxb2 11. Bxb2

White has a lead in material and development, but it's a bit scarier than our NN likes. So he doesn't go there.

Instead we get 9. cxd4 Nxd4 10. Nxd4 Qh4

click for larger view

The black queen goes trick or treating. White is going to lose either the f pawn or the h pawn. From here, either 11. Be3 or 11. Qd2 would lead to a fairly level game.

But white would have to allow his king to be kicked around. For example, 11. Be3 Qxh2+ 12. Kf1 Qh1+ 13. Ke2 Qxg2

click for larger view

The position is level, but it's messy. And that is where black wants to be (as probably the higher ranked player), but white doesn't.

So white goes the other way and walks into a smothered mate.

How do we call this one? Black played for a cheap trick from the opening. He was banking that white would not know the opening and also not want to allow his king to be mussed around.

Whatever happened, black would get an imbalanced position where he would have a good chance to win.

Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: 1864? Why did Constantinople get the works?
Oct-27-14  patzer2: Interesting biographical sketch on the winner of this game, Hungarian Chess Master Vincent Grimm, at

<...Grimm had a wide variety of professions and hobbies throughout his life. He was an artist, an art dealer, a pianist, a linguist, a well known billiards master, a gifted drawer, consequently a lithographer and a cartographer. He was also president of the Pesth (later Budapest) Chess Club which was founded in 1839...

Grimm received an invitation to compete in the London 1851 chess tournament. He, however, had been involved in the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 against the Habsburg Empire, and was arrested for printing and distributing subversive literature - the famous Kossuth bank notes. He was exiled in Aleppo, Syria (then Ottoman Empire), and was unable to take his place in the tournament.[3] In Syria/Turkey, he converted to Islam,[4] and changed his name to either Murad Bey or Mustafa Bey. He returned to Hungary in 1868.[5]

His name is attached to the Grimm Attack in the King's Gambit, Bishop's Gambit (C33): 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Qh4+ 4.Kf1 g5 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.d4 d6 7.e5.>

Oct-27-14  BOSTER: After 9.h3 white is better.

< Once: it's a bit scarier than our NN likes>.,if black gives up a piece for a speculative attack.

Mental resilience is the most critical trait of a world- class performance.

Oct-27-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: I agree with <ONCE> about White playing scared.

Against a superior player, one should actually hope for a speculative sacrifice. That's them taking an unnecessary risk, and the easiest way for you to wind up with a win.

Oct-27-14  Dagdaletwo: My apologies. After move 11 for white H3, how does black proceed to win ? Earlier in error gave move 12, s hold be 11.
Oct-27-14  Steve.Patzer: That guy NN has been playing for at least three centuries.
Oct-27-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: <Steve.Patzer>,

And he hasn't gotten much better over all that time.

Oct-28-14  sneaky pete: After 11.h3 Qxf2+ 12.Kh1 Bxd4

click for larger view

Black has 2 extra pawns and Ng4 is untouchable. 13.Rf1 h5 or 13.Re2 Qg3 don't look good, what else can White play?

search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
12...? (October 27, 2014)
from Monday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
a twofold purpose queen sac.
from smothered mates by kevin86
12...? (Monday, October 27)
from Puzzle of the Day 2014 by Phony Benoni
Games Around the World: Hungary
by Gottschalk
pre-Steinitz Era
by Gottschalk
from Smothered Mate Examples by ChessCoachClark
12...? (Monday, October 27)
from POTD Ruy Lopez 2 by takchess

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2023, Chessgames Services LLC