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Ding Yixin vs Zhongyi Tan
2nd Women Masters (2012), Jiangsu Wuxi CHN, rd 3, Apr-12
Sicilian Defense: Old Sicilian. Open (B32)  ·  1-0



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-16-13  Boerboel Guy: <orezrg: Please, can somebody tell me why Black resigned? I don't see how White win after 36...e7>

After pieces are exchanged it is a simple endgame win with pawn majorities (for white) on both sides of the board

Mar-16-13  solskytz: Here's my take on it, for what it's worth - <Eisenheim> in your line ...Rxg7, white is down the exchange, not up a bishop.

What I saw is 36...Re7 37. Rxe7 Kxe7 38. g7 Kf7 39. g8=Q Rxg8 40. Bxg8 Kxg8.

This is a pawn ending, where after 41. g4, white will have the potential outside passed pawn, which should be advantageous, even in view of black's two passers on the e-file. An extra pawn on the Q-side is an additional advantage, especially if black can't get there right away as he has to handle some embarrassing affairs on the g- and h- files...

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Whether this actually works out to a forcefully won ending, is quite beyond my will or ability to calculate by myself, as it is well known that these endings are full of intricacies, finesses and unexpected maneouvers - be it by king or by pawn...

I would love to enter this ending as white, but wouldn't hurry to resign it as black - however the two players here involved, belong to quite a different class than my own, so they must surely know more and be able to calculate better and more swiftly.

Mar-16-13  solskytz: <Boerboel Guy>
your post does put it in very simple terms actually :-)

I was quite possibly afraid of ghosts - such as a potential blockade of my pawns, either by ...h5 and ...h4, or by ...a5...

or the prospects, after the a-pawns disappear, of advancing b5, and after ...cxb5 to have the black b pawn run wild and out of control, while the black king holds our c-pawn...

but this is probably just undue pessimism. The position should be played with more confidence than I showed in my above comment :-)

Holding the black pieces, on the other hand, your comment does drive me closer to immediate resignation - but I'm not quite there yet... who knows - I might still get lucky, even though my opponent here is in the 2400s... optimism never dies.

Mar-16-13  Boerboel Guy: Eisenheim is hugely mistaken and psmith and solskytz (his above the line comments) are correct. As I stated before, this is an elementary endgame win :-)
Premium Chessgames Member
  PawnSac: Well, lets see...
If white plays Qg8+ black has the flight square e7 so the goal is to remove it. White needs to bring another piece into the mating net which must be a rook since black is too strong on the dark squares, especially h2-b8 diagonal. So if 29.Bxf4! since after Bxf4 30.Rxd5! and black can't take the rook since if exd5 then Qg8++ and if cxd5 white's other rook has a killer hold on e6, so Qg8+ Ke7 Rxe6+ Kd7 Qf7 and black can resign. Thats as far as i'm gonna go, so lets see what happened.
Mar-16-13  King Sacrificer: Endgame is so clear, if anyone is interested.

<37. Rxe7 Kxe7 38. g7 Kf7 39. g8=Q+ Rxg8 40. Bxg8 Kxg8 41. Kf2 Kf7 42. Ke3 Kf6 43. Kxe4>

click for larger view

Now White has two options to win the game. Either by pushing queenside pawns to create a passed pawn, or by pushing kingside pawns to distract the Black king, occupy e5, take Black e-pawn, take Black c-pawn and promote his c-pawn. Black has nothing to do.

Mar-16-13  Eisenheim: I could be hugely mistaken, I admit, but my line calls for 37 g7+, the immediate rxr, did anyone run that through the engines?
Mar-16-13  Eisenheim: I am hugely mistaken as I just played it over my board! missed the simple RXP. well, I got the candidate move right for the wrong reasons, thats always fun
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: The material is identical.

Black threatens 29... Qg7, forcing the exchange of queens due to Qxg2#, and Bxa2.

If both black bishops disappeared then White would force mate with 29.Qg8+ Ke7 30.Qxe6+ and mate next. This suggests 29.Bxf4, to divert Black's DSB from the e-file:

A) 29... Bxf4 30.Rxd5

A.1) 30... cxd5 31.Qg8+ Ke7 32.Qxe6+ Kf8 (32... Kd8 33.Qxe8#) 33.Qg8#.

A.2) 30... exd5 31.Qg8#.

A.3) 30... Qg7 31.Qxg7+ Kxg7 32.Rd7+

A.3.a) 32... Kf8 33.Bg6 Red8 34.Rf7+ Kg8 35.Rxf6 Rd2 (35... Kg7 36.Rfxe6 + - [3P]) 36.Rxe6 Rxb2 37.Rxc6 Rxa2 38.g3 + - [2P].

A.3.b) 32... Kh8 33.Bg6 Red8 (33... Rg8 34.Rh7#) 34.Red1 and White is a pawn ahead and has the better ending.

A.4) 30... Qf7 31.Qxf7+ Kxf7 32.Rd7+ Re7 (32... Kf8 transposes to A.3) 33.Bg6+ (33.Rxe7 Kxe7 34.Bf5 e5 35.Rd1 Rd8 (35... Rb8 36.g3 traps the bishop) 36.Rxd8 Kxd8, unclear) 33... Kf8 34.Red1 with a similar conclusion as A.3.b.

A.5) 30... Be5 31.Qg8+ Ke7 32.Qg7#.

B) 29... Qg7 30.Bxh6 wins the queen.

C) 29... Qf7 30.Bxh6+ Ke7 31.Qxf7+ Kxf7 32.Bb1 + - [2P].

Mar-16-13  snakebyt: I did this: 29 d2d5 Qd7 30 Qg8+ Ke7 31 Qg7#
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I tried a combination,but it failed badly...not even close on this one.
Premium Chessgames Member
  PawnSac: <solskytz: What I saw is 36...Re7 37. Rxe7 Kxe7 38. g7 Kf7 39. g8=Q Rxg8 40. Bxg8 Kxg8.

This is a pawn ending, where after 41. g4, white will have the potential outside passed pawn>

Yes, your line is correct. The moves are all forced, and white reduces the position to a completely won ending in which, as Boerboel Guy points out, white has pawn majorities on both sides.

click for larger view

In this position you suggest 41.g1 … and your thinking that white <will have> the potential passer would entice you to play it immediately, but that would be a weaker and hasty move! The simple fact is white already <has> the potential passers on both sides. This distinction may seem subtle, but is quite important if we are to understand the position correctly!

One of the clear indicators of an endgame position is the relative positions of the kings. In the opening the K goes into hiding. In the ending the K is a major fighting piece. A fundamental principle in the ending is… ACTIVATE THE KING! K position is of paramount importance and games are won or lost based on it. So if getting the K to the strongest possible position (which is usually in the center or on the 6th rank) before the opponent is critical, then we must ask, what is the most important square on the board? From where would white’s K dominate the board? In this position, white ultimately wants his K on e5 where black will have to passively defend the pawn from behind. THEN white will push the kingside pawns.

So the correct move would be 41.Kf2! and after ..Kf7 42. Ke3 Kf6 43. Kxe4 we arrive at this position with black to play and lose.

click for larger view

Notice in this position that if black were to blunder with h5? THEN white would immediately challenge with g4! and black would be forced to exchange pawns and abandon his E pawn in order to stop the passer. Then white would simply take the E and C pawns, attack the A pawn from b7, and escort the C pawn to queendom.

So the pawn on g2 is not so weak! In fact, the distant position of the g pawn makes any idea of a king race to create a black passed H pawn completely out of the question. Count the squares. It would take black 11 moves to capture white G and H pawns and queen his own. Whereas white can queen in 8 moves. Alternately, if black plays any K move white immediately plays Ke5. What about a7-a5? (if a6 then b4! and white has run black out of moves. zugzwang.) So after 43. ...a5 44.b3! and again, blacks pawns are all “fixed”.

In retrospect, when looking back at white’s simplification sequence, one of it’s strengths is that it also draws blacks king further from the center!

So the moral of the story is ACTIVATE THE KING!!

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <King Sacrificer> <Endgame is so clear, if anyone is interested.>

<37. Rxe7 Kxe7 38. g7 Kf7 39. g8=Q+ Rxg8 40. Bxg8 Kxg8>

click for larger view

I stopped your line after 40...Kxg8 to set up a secondary puzzle.

Take out either the a pawn or the b pawn. Does white still win?

Return to 40..Kxg8 and take out either the g pawn or the h pawn. Does white still win?

Premium Chessgames Member
  PawnSac: one more comment about the position above. When blacks pawns have all become "fixed" he has only the K as a moveable piece. But since white has held his pawn moves in reserve, he will have them available to either create opposition against the black king by changing the order of moves, or force black to abandon d6 letting white at the C pawn. If black insists on guarding d6 then white simply advances the k-side pawns to break thru. But this whole idea of RESERVING PAWN MOVES is why in many GM games you will see them not move the pawn when it seemed they should, or they only move 1 square when 2 looked good!

I hope that makes sense. I don't know if i explained it clearly.

Premium Chessgames Member
  PawnSac: <Jimfromprovidence: I stopped your line after 40...Kxg8 to set up a secondary puzzle.

Take out either the a pawn or the b pawn. Does white still win?

Return to 40..Kxg8 and take out either the g pawn or the h pawn. Does white still win? >

Now see THAT is the kind of thing that makes excellent exercises! WTG Jim.

I could answer in both cases, but in order not to short circuit other's thinking process, i'll go for a walk around the lake and come back in a while to see if anyone has solved your puzzle! If not, i'll post an attempt. <wink>

Mar-16-13  Patriot: Material is even.

I went in circles on this and came up with 29.Bxf4:

29...Bxf4 30.Rxd5 cxd5 31.Qg8+ Ke7 32.Rxe6+ Kd7 33.Qf7+

29...Bxf4 30.Rxd5 Qg7 31.Qxg7+ Kxg7 32.Rd7+ Kf8 and I think white is doing fine.

There is more to this, I'm sure. It seems like a fancy way of winning a pawn but potentially allows for much more.

Mar-16-13  Patriot: In my first line, I had a similar idea and ran into trouble:

29...Bxf4 30.Qg8+ Ke7 31.Rxe6+ Bxe6 32.Qg7+ Bf7 and here I didn't see any progress.

click for larger view

For example, 33.Bg6 Rf8 is what I had foreseen but there is a little more: 34.Re1+ Be5 35.f4 etc. Also, 33.Bf5 Rg8 gave me problems.

So later I modified this to 29...Bxf4 30.Rxd5!

Mar-16-13  Al2009: <p smith>

After 24. Qe4! f5 25. Qe2 Bd5 25. Bxf5 e6 26 Bb1, then White can play Ba5, or Qh5 etc. keeping for ever Black under a strong attack against the poor Kingside.

Rybka's suggestion 24. Ba5! is good, of course, but you can enter the same kind of variation even by playing 24. Qe4! f5 25. Qe2 and then Ba5 etc.

Mar-16-13  David2009: Ding Yixin vs Tan Zhongyi, 2012 White 29?

Puzzle position

click for larger view

linked to Crafty End Game Trainer:

I can't win this against the better defence 29.Bxf4 Bxf4 30.Rxd5 Qf7. I'm a guest so can't li9nger: enjoy solving it!.

Mar-16-13  mistreaver: Saturday. White to play. Very difficult. 29?
Back to solving puzzles. White has overwhelming position, but has to break through. At the moment both rook sacrifices look very tempting, and there is also nice diverting move Ba5. But at what order does it go? If immediately Ba5 Qg7 holds. There are two different lines of play that i will examine: A)Immediate sacrifice at e5:
29 Rxe5
The idea is to free the f6 square from the mighty bishop A1)
29... Qxe5
30 Bc3 Qg5 and black defends
or A2)
29... fxe5
30 Qf6+ Qf7
and again black holds.
B)Driving the king to d8
29 Qg8+ Ke7
30 Qg7+ Kd8
and again white has nothing
I don't know, i am too tired, been on my feet since 8 in the morning, played against the Grandmaster today, and i am too tired to think about this one right now. Gonna see the solution.
Mar-16-13  James D Flynn: I analysed the game line up to move 30 then selected Qf7 instead of Qg7 : 29.Bxf4 Bxf4 30.Rxd5 Qf7(if Qg7(if Qg7 31.Qxg7+ Kxg7 32.Rd7+ Kf8 33.R1d1and White has won a pawn and has a supported RR ion the 7th rank)33.Qxf7+ Kxf7 34.Rd7 Re7 35.Rd1 White has won a pawn and has a R on the 7th but that may not be enough to win with opposite colour Bs or if 33.cxd5 31.Qg8+ Ke7 32.Qxe6+ Kd8(if Kf8 33.Qg8#) 33.Qxe8#). Does anyone see a clear win after 30...Qf7?
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <James D. Flynn><Does anyone see a clear win after 30...Qf7?> Good find with 30...Qf7 as it puts up the most resistance here.

For beating 30...Qf7 I like 31. Qxf7+ (31. Rd3! is the move Fritz 12 prefers and may be stronger) 31...Kxf7 32. Rd7+ Re7

click for larger view

33. Bg6+! Kf8 34. Rd3

click for larger view

when play might continue 34...Rb8 35. b3 Be5 36. Bh5 a5 37. g3 Kg7 38. Bf3 Rb5 39. Rc1 Rc7 40. Rd8 f5 41. Be2 Rbb7 42. Rcd1 f4 43. g4 Kf6 44. Bc4 Re7 45. Rf8+ Kg6 46. Rdd8 Kg5 47. Kg2 Bg7 48. Rg8 Rbc7 49. Rd6 e5 50. Bd3 e4

click for larger view

51. Rxg7+! Rxg7 52. Bxe4 h5 53. Kf3 hxg4+ 54. hxg4 Rce7 55. Rxc6 .

Mar-17-13  solskytz: On 37 g7+, black has ...Rxg7, which you didn't take into account. This was before the engines :-)

It would lead, in all probability, into 38. Rxg7 Kxg7 39. Bxe4 Rb8 and 40. Bxc6 Rc8, or 40. b3 Rb5. Black would have excellent winning chances, and in strong GM level I suppose this is won 9 times out of 10.

Mar-20-13  King Sacrificer: <Jimfromprovidence: <King Sacrificer> <Endgame is so clear, if anyone is interested.><37. Rxe7 Kxe7 38. g7 Kf7 39. g8=Q+ Rxg8 40. Bxg8 Kxg8>click for larger viewI stopped your line after 40...Kxg8 to set up a secondary puzzle.Take out either the a pawn or the b pawn. Does white still win?Return to 40..Kxg8 and take out either the g pawn or the h pawn. Does white still win?>

Sorry, i've just seen this post. I think White wins in the first case but draws in the second.

In the first case there will be no passed pawn on the queen side but the fact is that Black king can't help his h-pawn preventing White from creating a passed pawn there. He should stay next to his e-pawn.

The second case looks harder to me as it looks like a promotion race is possible and White c-pawn and Black h-pawn queen at the same move. There will be no time for White to use the queen side advantage as he needs to move forward with the king after taking the advanced e-pawn. He can not deal both with the other e-pawn and the Black king attacking the g-h pawn. I think it becomes a promotion race and Black can draw.

I would like to know what was the correct answer.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <King Sacrficer>

<Sorry, i've just seen this post. I think White wins in the first case but draws in the second.>

You are correct.

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