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May-15-13 | | PhilFeeley: I think I only looked at Qe7 briefly and rejected it as inadequate. Then I saw Qd6 and stopped as it was more obviously winning. |
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May-15-13 | | Nick46: <Patriot: Hmm... 31.Qd6 is something I never considered here.> Extraordinary honesty for one of the stars of this forum; I dips me lid. Indeed, one doesn't expect a queensac on a Wednesday. |
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May-15-13 | | Jausch46: I can see now that 31. Qe7 is not as good than Qd6, nevertheless it is not loosing; abusic's argument is convincing, thanks a lot for this enlightened discussion. |
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May-15-13 | | cocker: As pointed out earlier by <bright1>, Black missed chance of draw with 28 ... ♘f3+. |
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May-15-13 | | Abdel Irada: <<•> (Back) rank has its privileges <•>> White begins the fun with a queen offer backed by a mate threat on the back rank. Note that I don't call this a queen *sacrifice*. That is because Black can't even consider accepting, and this makes the offer itself a "stock" pseudo-sacrifice in such positions; watch for ones like it (or the threat of them) in your own games and those of others to see how common they really are. <<•> 31. Qd6! ... > Taking is not an option: (a) 31. ...Rxd6? 32. Re8†, Kh7 33. Rh8#. Technically, this isn't a back-rank mate, but it is one that requires control of the eighth rank, so it falls into the same thematic category. Black can, of course, make a check of his own.
<<•> 31. ...Nxh3†32. Kf1 ... >
But since the check has no follow-up, Black is confronted afresh by his dilemma: how to avoid the mate pattern described above. Black has three options.
<<•> (1) 32. ...Rf8 > Not playable here is (b) 32. ... Qxd5? 33. Qxd5, Rxd5 33. Re8†, Kh7 34. Rh8#. <<•> 33. Qf6 > Black can't stop the mate threats.
< (2) 32. ...Rc8
33. Bxf7†, Kh7
34. Qf6 >
As before, Black can't hold off the mate threats. And 33. ...Kxf7 34. Qf6†, Kg8 35. Qg7# is no better. < (3) 32. ...Qg5
33. Bf6 >
Black still can't take on d6 or d5, and any other move cedes decisive material. •Takeaway: If you can offer your queen on penalty of mate and in the process create threats or win material, never fear to do so. A defense that can't be played is no defense at all. ∞ |
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May-15-13 | | Abdel Irada: I failed to imagine that Black would play the non-defense 31. ...Ne6?, after which the text sac is only one of the ways to win. The knight move also loses to 32. Rxe6, albeit more slowly because the latter allows checks. In any case, it startled me to see a 2400 player essay such a hopeless move. ∞ |
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May-15-13 | | eblunt: Once I realised blacks ♖d8 is pinned to the back row by the mate threat, I realised ♕d6 does the key aims of ♕e7; i.e attack ♖d8, with the additional benefit of protecting ♗d5. Strange way of working it out, but thats how my brain works I guess. |
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May-15-13 | | Abdel Irada: Good observation, <eblunt>. Vocalizing your logic is among the best ways to sharpen it. "If you want to learn about a subject," one proverb has it, "write a book about it." The same sort of mechanism may be at work here. ∞ |
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May-15-13 | | anandrulez: Type of positions when u get sense when you play and not solve the puzzle usually . I mean we keep some plans and back rank would weakness will always be our mind ... Etc ... Don't know if I am talking weird :-o |
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May-15-13 | | SuperPatzer77: <abuzic> Many, many thanks!!! Your line is much better than mine. LOL LOL 31. Qe7? Nxh3+!, 32. Kf1 Qxd5!!, 33. Qf6?? Qh!+, 34. Ke2 Ng1+! (<abuzic>'s line) 35. Rxg1 (35. Kf1 Nf3+, 36. Ke2 Rd2#) Qe4+, 36. Kf1 Rd1# Well-done, <abuzic> Instead of 33. Qf6?, 33. Qe8+ Kh7!!! (allowing the Black Rook to defend h8 and to prevent Qh8#). So, that's why I prefer 31. Qd6! better than 31. Qe7. SuperPatzer77 |
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May-15-13
 | | gawain: I considered both 31 Qe6 and Qe7 (with the variations leading to Qh8# or Rh8#) but I did not see the right follow-up if black replies 31...Rf8. Oh well. |
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May-15-13
 | | LIFE Master AJ: 31.Qd6! [Or 31.Qe7!? Nxh3+ 32.Kg2 Qxd5+ 33.Kxh3 and 34.Qf6 " " - Houdini ] 31...Ne6 32.Qxd8+ 1-0 |
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May-15-13 | | M.Hassan: <Superpatzer77
Correct one is 32...Qxd5 - NOT Qxf5.
SuperPatzer77>
Right.
Thank you for correction |
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May-15-13
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Since white is already up a piece, I went defensive. I wanted to prevent 31...Nh3+, double-attacking the bishop, so I chose 31 Bg2, below.  click for larger view32 Qe7 was my follow-up. I never looked for anything better, like 31 Qd6. |
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May-15-13
 | | chrisowen: At good game light rook and queen threaten to,
invade at e7 whilst d5 and b2 jostle for the right,
to demolish a king bereft of resources so pumped queen shin ace rook hoodwinked behind quench in d5, a rope to hang on first d6 or e7 mind you slog amor fati to bear up tour bishop it yeah in line l0 i nudge knight h3 despot dilemma in ever tickle wain, hid a 31...Nxh3+ king up ply in 32.Kg2 qxd5+ ar,
good in wall it now in reverence the hero blink and, youll miss the point re b2 hush queen in achtung,
king off he goes call extricate gotcha see had,
33.kxh3 when gauge light re oomph can effectively bet resign b2 in will decide queen edged out cad a 31.qd6 fagged aqua ducked marine whats at fault, here rookd7 I think it is I don't know at rook dutiful slide a mongrel is vivacious again d6 first be dead in the water e6 nearly it ogle in flurry i, tale in every it double in dig a 31...ne6 tour mate, for age in calms it be in flakey it overall you,
panderings lot and aint it swan in song scanned tho, horizon d8 queen head off in hung drawn and quatered. |
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May-15-13 | | atackishki99: hello there!hopeless positions for black!after
(23 Qa3 Red7?.) better 23 ...rc7
(20 Qc3 Re7?) better 20...Bh3 |
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May-15-13
 | | kevin86: Wow! Qd6!! a ten bell move-attacking the rook-as can be seen,it cannot be either defended or moved. |
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May-15-13 | | coolknight: White's dark squared bishop on b2 nicely covers g7 and h8. All that's needed is for a Q / R to penetrate the back rank and mate on h8. Since both Q and R can do this, the Q can be sac'd which leads to 31. Qd6
If 31. ..RxQd6, 32. Re8+ Kh7 33. Rh8#
Declining the sac doesn't help either,
e.g. 31. ..Nxh3+ 32. Kf1 now black has no more checks and white threatens 33. Bxf7+ Kxf7 34. Qe7+ Kg8 35. Qg7# 32. .. QxBd4 33. QxQd4 and the Q is still immune to capture due to Re8+ and Rh8# In any case white wins easily |
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May-15-13
 | | gawain: Not that anyone will care, but I did mean "Qd6 and Qe7" not the impossible "Qe6 and Qe7". Anyone who noted my comment will (I hope) have given me the benefit of the doubt. The drawing line reported by <bright> back in the first comment is nice. |
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May-15-13 | | stst: (I) First line ("Q-sac"):
31.Qd6 obviously RxQ ==> 32.Re8#
But if Nf3+, 32.BxN RxQ, 33.Re8# (if QxB, 33.QxR+ and Qh8# next.)(II) 2nd: The constraint move:
31.Qe7
IF (A)...Rf8, 32.Qf6 ...next Qg7#
IF (B)...Kh7, 32.QxR ...next Qh8#
IF (C)...Qxh3,32.QxR+ Kh7, 33.Qh8#
IF (D)...Nf3+,32.BxN QxB, 33.QxR+...next Qh8# |
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May-15-13 | | abuzic: <SuperPatzer77:>
More on 31.Qe7
31.Qe7 Nh3+ 32.Kg2 leads to winning position after 32...Qxd5+ 34.Kxh3 31.Qe7 Nh3+ 32.Kf1? Qxd5 33.Qe4 Qxe4 34.Rxe4 f5 balck escapes the mate threats and is up 2 pawns, but still playable by white. |
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May-15-13 | | tivrfoa: I considered play 31. Bxf7+ and then 32. Qe7. Does this lose? |
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May-15-13 | | BOSTER: The move 31.Qd6 is not only the attacking rook d8, but defensive the bishop d5.
Move 31.Qd6 made not only immune the queen if Rxd6 Re8+ Kh7 Rh8#, but immune the bishop on d5 . After Nxh3+ Kf1 Qxd5 Rxd5 Re8 Kh7 Rh8# , what created the irresistable beauty.
My guess that many players, who prefer 31.Qe7, did not see that the bishop on d5 was attacked twice by rook and by queen on h5. |
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May-15-13 | | Moonwalker: I didn't consider Qd6. 31.Qe7 jumped at me first and I think it's checkmate in all variations. |
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May-15-13 | | JohnAnthony: Yeah as several others already noted Qd6 beats Qe7. Though I saw Qe7 immediately, as it looked 'good enough'. Funny how 'good enough' doesn't get you to master.... |
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