Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Dirk van Foreest vs Christiaan Messemaker
DCA Congress 12th (1884), Gouda NED
Sicilian Defense: Paulsen Variation (B46)  ·  0-1



explore this opening
find similar games 3 more D van Foreest/C Messemaker games
sac: 41...Rxe2 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  GoldenKnight: I got this, but it seems more in the Wednesday category: easy/medium.
May-20-14  Peter Nemenyi: <Infohunter: The name of the player who lost this game just screams for a GOTD pun.>

So does the site of the game--some pretty cheesy tactical play, frankly.

Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Black is a pawn down.

The weakness of the light squares around the white king invites to play 41... Rxe2:

A) 42.Qxe2 Bc4 wins.

B) 42.Qxf6 Rxh2

B.1) 43.Rxh2 Qd1+

B.1.a) 44.Kf2 Qxd2+ 45.Kg3 (45.Kg1 Qe1+ 46.Qf1 Nf3+ 47.Kg2 Rxh2+, etc.) 45... Qe3+ 46.Kg4 Bf5+ wins.

B.1.b) 44.Be1 Bc4+ 45.Kf2 (45.Kg1 Qxe1+ 46.Qf1 Qxf1#) 45... Qe2+ 46.Kg3 Qxe1+ wins.

B.2) 43.Qd8+ Kh7

B.2.a) 44.Qd3+ Bg6 and the double threat 45... Bxd3 and 45... Rxh1+ wins.

B.2.b) 44.g6+ Qxg6 again with the double threat 45... Rxd8 and 45... Rxh1+ wins.

C) 42.Rxh4 Rxf2+, etc.

May-20-14  diagonalley: odd... on first glimpse of the position i immediately assumed it was white to move! ... nice protected skewer
May-20-14  abuzic: 41...?
41...Rxe2 42.Qf4 Rxh2 (42...Qxf4+ and 42...Re4 also win) 43.Qxg4 Rxh1+ 44.Kf2 Rh2+ 45.Ke1 f5 46.Qg3 f4 47.Bxf4 Bd5

White missed many opportunities to win:

<31.Reh1> 31.Bxg5 fxg5 32.Qe3

<32.Ne2> 32.Bxg5 fxg5 33.Qe3 Kf6 34.f4

<35.f4> 35.Nd4 Kf8 36.Bxg5 fxg5 37.Qxg5 Rg8 38.Qxh5

<36.Qxd4 Qc6 37.fxg5 Qf3+ 38.Kg1 Kg8? (38...Bd5=)> 36.Nxd4 Kg8 37.fxg5 fxg5 38.Nf5 Qxd2+ 39.Bxd2 Re8 40.Bxg5 Ng6 41.Rxh8+ Nxh8 42.Nd6 Re6 43.Rxh8+ Kxh8 44.Nxf7+

<39.Bd2?> 39.gxf6 followed by Rxh4

May-20-14  Nick46: I often bomb out on Tuesdays but today I made no mistake. ... Re: Dutch names, someone once told me they thought up funny names for themselves to confuse the Spaniards who were occupying their country at the time.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Stonehenge: I see there's some interest in the names. Both Messemaker and especially Van Foreest are very rare names. Messemaker means knife maker and the name Van Foreest is already mentioned in 1241: knight Willem van Foreest, van meaning 'of'.
May-20-14  dakgootje: < Re: Dutch names, someone once told me they thought up funny names for themselves to confuse the Spaniards who were occupying their country at the time.>

The French actually, at the start of the 19 century. Shortly after the French revolution, after which the French happily decided to help surrounding countries getting rid of their kings. Even if they didn't really want to.

Anyway, it's very often mentioned in the Netherlands as well. But factually untrue. The French law was implemented, with which indeed came the need to register life-events like being born, marriage and death in registries. And the name that was registered became heritable. However many family names were already well-established, so there was only little need to think up new names.

As far as I know, there is no evidence for strange or odd names to ridicule the notion of family names or the French.


In any case, Messemaker means 'knife-maker' - so cutler springs to mind.

May-20-14  patzer2: A decoy with 41...Rxe2! and then a pin to win the Queen after 42. Qxe2 Bc4! solves this Tuesday puzzle.
May-20-14  therevolver17: 41..Bc4 and white can't take the knight with queen nor with rook. If 42.Rxh4 Bxe2+ 43.Ke1 Bd3+ and if 42.Qxh4 Qxe2+ 43.Kg1 Qf1#.

I've looked at more direct 41..Rxe2 42.Qxe2 Bc4 43.Qxc4 Qxc4+ 44.Kf2 Qg4. Probably it's winning.

May-20-14  morfishine: 41...Rxe2 42.Qxe2 Bc4 looks like a winner


May-20-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: 41 ... Rxe2 obviously wins, UNLESS White's attack can punch through in response. So let's see.

41 ... Rxe2
42 Qxe2 Bc4
43 Rxh4 Rxh4
44 Rxh4

and Black has no problem.

41 ... Rxe2
42 Rxh4 Rxf2+

and White's h4 rook isn't even properly guarded.

41 ... Rxe2
42 Qxf6 Rxh2
43 Qd8+ Kh7
44 Qd3 Bg6

and White is out of checks.

May-20-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: Too bad nobody goes to coffeehouses any more.
May-20-14  mrknightly: How about something along the lines of "The messemaker hammers the dirk." Tranlation: the knife maker hammers the dagger.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: Vot? Vot iz zo vunny about my name? Alvways vis you Englischers it is ze same. You make ze sniggers behind ze hands.

I do not understand ze jokes about ze poopy. Nor do I understand vy you make ze titters about mein son. Vot it so vunny about ze name Willy?

Today's POTD caused me no end of angst. Quite possibly one of the hardest Tuesdays ever.

Okay, sure we have 41...Rxe2 42. Qxe2 Bc4. That much is obvious. But we can also play 41...Bc4 (as <therevolver17> has spotted.

In either line black is going to win a piece and have fun torturing the exposed white queen. But which is best? Am I really expected to work that out at a Tuesday level of difficulty or can I go back to making Willy mess jokes?

Fritzie says that either move wins. He prefers 41...Rxe2 (-4.68) over 41...Bc4 (-3.4) but that's not a huge margin of difference.

Incidentally, after 41...Rxe2 he reckons that white's best is 42. Qf4 taking the piece loss on the chin and not walking into the bishop pin.

But white's position is in such a messe that it probably doesn't matter much either way.

May-20-14  kevin86: I missed this one. The exchange sac is followed by a queen pin.
May-20-14  Chess Dad: <kevin86: I missed this one. >

As did I. I saw Bc4, and I saw Rxe2, but for some reason I couldn't see that Bc4 was protected by the Queen in g4.

I didn't give myself very long though. I'm hoping to start seeing those kinds of things easier. I can't spend 5 minutes on a simple move like this in a real game.

May-20-14  paulofx2071: why not 35)Bxg5!, fxg5, 36)Qxg5+ and 37)Rxh4?
May-20-14  BOSTER: <Once: white's pos. is in such a mess (POTD)>.

But it was not so dark in the forest in the middle of the game.

This is pos.white to play 31.

click for larger view

After 31.Rxh4 gxh4 32.Qe3 with double threat Qh6+ and Nxe6 game is very sharp.

BTW. <patzer2> Thanks for the analysis 19...Nxb3(yesterday POTD).

May-20-14  1stboard: < BOSTER: <Once: white's pos. is in such a mess (POTD)>.

But it was not so dark in the forest in the middle of the game.

This is pos.white to play 31. >

I agree on the above, looks like white would have a promising attack and did not play the best move on move # 31

May-20-14  Pedro Fernandez: After the obvious 41...Rxe2, 42.Qg1 Qf3+ 43.Rf2 Rxf2+ 44.Qxf2 Qxh1+ 45.Ke2 Bc4+ 46.Ke3 Qh3+ 47.Ke4 Qd3+

click for larger view

followed by a quick mate. (Of course, this variation is ridiculous! Just for fun!)

Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Once> Vy is it you englischers must make jokes? You make ze sniggers und ze titters ... you are obsessed mit the humor of ze toilet, yes? A straight flush? If a Messemaker falls in ze Foreest, who will hear?
May-20-14  M.Hassan: "Easy"
Black to play 41...?
Black is a pawn down.

<if 42.Qxe2 Bc4 and Queen is captured>

42.Qg1 Qxg1+
43.Rxg1 Rxh2
44.gxf6+ Ng6
Black is now ahead by R+B for 2 pawns
If on move 43, King takes Queen;
43.Kxg1 Nf3+
44.Kg1 Rexh2
45.Rxh2 Rxh2
White is now weaker than before.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: Does the bear make a messe in the foreest?
May-22-14  Infohunter: Well, it seems I overlooked an obvious point here yesterday as to the respective winner and loser of this game. Nevertheless, I think the pun idea is sound--on the name of the winner, just to be clear.
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
41...? (May 20, 2014)
from Tuesday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
51a2 Black IQP on d5
by whiteshark
41...? (Tuesday, May 20)
from Puzzle of the Day 2014 by Phony Benoni
Game ends with an Royal Absolute Pin-- White Queen is lost!
from Absolute Pin Tactic-- OTB Examples by ChessCoachClark
41...? (Tuesday, May 20)
from POTD Sicilian Defense 4 by takchess
0ZeR0's Favorite Games Volume 35
by 0ZeR0

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2023, Chessgames Services LLC