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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Feb-05-11 | | AGOJ: Thanks for the post, Phony. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | 1.e4effort: I looked at this for awhile. I wanted to get my N closer to the action before sac-ing the R but not at h5 - the d Rook at d6. I looked at getting my N to f6 via e4 thus: Ne4, then (hopefully) sac-ing the R with Rd6 then Nf6+, but the more I looked at it I figured it probably wouldn't work as Black would stop that attack short, most likely with an attack on the WQ. So the strongest move is Rxh5. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | David2009: K Djordje vs G M Todorovic, 1992 White 20? Is this an epaulette mate I see coming up after 20 Rxh5 gxh5 21 Rxd7 Qxd7 22 g6 Rf8 (if hxg6 23 Qxg6+ Kf8 24 Qxf7#) 23 Ne4 hxg6?? 24 Qxg6#. Very pretty but
unforced - hope chess. Better 23...Qf5 (protects everything whilst threatening 24...Qf4+ and ready to answer 24 Ng5? with Qxg6) but 24 g7 Rd8 25 gxh8+ Kxh8 26 Ng5 looks good.
[I have a choice between 23 Ne4 and 23 g7 immediately, at the moment I prefer Ne3 since I need to be able to threaten Ng5]. Time to
check:
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Not quite. Can I beat Crafty End Game Trainer starting from the puzzle position
click for larger view
and with my variation? Crafty EGT link:
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
The answer is NO. The EGT refutes the main line attack 23 Ne4 with 23...Qd5! threatening a check on g1. I should have seen this. The alternative 23 g7 is little better: 23...Rd8! etc. The moral is, the Rd1 is needed at home to look after the safety of the King, so 21 Ne4 first is necessary (or perhaps 21 Nd5 as proposed by <patzer2>). The EGT replies with 21...Qf1! and White still has work to do to win. If White tries the game continuation, Crafty EGT replies as in the game with 21... Qf8 22. Qxh5 Bf5 23. Nf6+ exf6 24. gxf6 Bg6 25. Rg1 Qg7 until 26. Qxe5 when it continues 26...Qf1. Over to the interested kibitzers to find the win. Warning - care is needed. Meanwhile, over here the garden calls. Good luck! |
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| Feb-05-11 | | asiduodiego: Damn. I had thought first: 20. Ne4. Good idea, but I forgot I had another rook. :P 20. Rxh6!. Nice play and follow |
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| Feb-05-11 | | kevin86: Too complicated for me-almost makes the Steelers' defense child's play.Of course,they have 11 Chuckys on D |
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| Feb-05-11 | | VincentL: "Very Difficult".
I am sure this starts 20. Rxh5 gxh5. Then 21. Rg1. threatens 22. g6 hxg6 23. Rxg6 mate. However black can play 21....Qf8 and I don't see a way forward. White´s 21st move must be something different perhaps. I don´t think an immediate g6 wins. My time is up, and I will check to see what happened. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | alachabre: I agree with patzer2 that 20. Rxh5 is a move that presents itself immediately. I saw it more as a prelude to a coming 2x. g6, but 21. g6 doesn't pay off. But if first 21. Rxd7, white gets a fine game. Of course, the mate threat Nf6 jumps off the board, so Ne4 begs to be played as well, but it is not in step with an advance of the g pawn. 21. Ne4 also gives white huge advantage (obviously), so it looks like a matter of style on how to press the win after Rxh7, or even a matter of style of how one finds the move 20. Rxh7. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | rilkefan: I'm having trouble with 26...Qf8, with Qe8 and a counter-attack on c2 and the bank rank. <<Eyal>: This one actually loses for White after 26...Qh6+!> Oh yeah, thanks. |
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Feb-05-11
 | | takchess: I'd play rxg5 and push the pawn but the actual continuation from there is unclear but I see the additional rook will come into play. |
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Feb-05-11
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Didn't get it. Too much to see at one time for me.
Playing through the game, I loved 21 Ne4 as well, which threatens 22 Nf6+ with forced mate. And as an aside, black cannot unpin the f pawn with 21..e6?? because of 22 Nf6#, below. 
click for larger viewIt's something that that the winning combination begins with 19 g5, which forces the trapped knight to the h file. That makes 18...Qe8 the losing move; 18...b4 was better. 
click for larger view |
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Feb-05-11
 | | agb2002: In my line A.1.a, I missed the maneuver 25... Qh3 26.b3 Qxf3 27.Bg6 (I actually saw these moves, but not ...) 27... Qf4+, forcing the trade of queens, and Black is better, if not winning. So 21.Ne4 is much better than 21.Rxd7. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | alachabre: agb2002 - in that line, look at 23. Qg5. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | alachabre: Just BTW, I agree that 21. Ne4 is better than 21. Rxd7, if only because the win seems less exacting to pursue - less chance of a calculation error to throw it away. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | Patriot: Material: Black is up two pawns.
Threats: Black doesn't threaten anything but consolidation. Perhaps something like 20...Bf5 and 21...Qf8. There are quite a few interesting candidates and I've been looking at this for a long time. The move that keeps coming back to me is 20.Rxh5. I've been toying with a lot of possibilities within that line and keep running into dead ends. Here it goes... 20.Rxh5 gxh5
If black plays a move like 20...Bf5, white can be pretty happy and retreat the rook. But in this line I looked at 21.Qxh5 where 21...Bf5 is possible, 21.Rxd7 Qxd7 22.Ne4 Qd8 23.Nf6+ exf6 24.gxf6 Qf8  , 21.g6 hxg6 22.Qxg6+ Kf8 and white's steam has run out, and 21.Nc5 which carries some "threats" of winning the exchange. I came across a few winning possibilities:
A) 21.Ne4
A.1) 21...Bf5 22.Nf6+ exf6 23.gxf6 Qf8 24.Rg1+ Bg6 25.Rxg6+ hxg6 26.Qxg6+ Qg7 27.Qxg7# A.2) 21...Qf8 22.Qxf8+ Kxf8 23.Rxd7. This doesn't seem so clear to me. B) 21.Rxd7
B.1) 21...Qxd7 22.g6
B.1.1) 22...hxg6 23.Qxg6+ Kf8 24.Qxf7#
B.1.2) 22...Qe8 23.gxf7+ Qxf7 24.Bxf7+ Kxf7 
B.2) 21...Qf8 22.Nc5 Qxh6 23.Nxe7+ Kf8 24.gxh6
I don't know. These are several possibilities but I think I like line B better. I'm going to see what happened and how far off the mark I am. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | Eyal: With accurate play by Black, it looks like only 21.Ne4/d5!! (both aiming for Nf6+) lead to a forced win; 21.Rxd7 isn't quite enough. The critical line in the latter case seems to be: <21.Rxd7 Qxd7 22.g6 Rf8 23.Qg5 h6! 24.Qxe5 Rh7!! 25.Nd5 Rd8!> (25...Rg7 26.Nxe7+ Kh8 27.Qe3; 25...Re8 26.Nf4!! with ideas of 26...Rg7 27.gxf7+ Rxf7 28.Bxf7+ Kxf7 29.Qxh5+ Kf8 30.Qxh6+ Kg8 31.Ne6 or 26...Rd8 27.gxh7+ Kxh7 28.Bd5 Rf8 29.Be4+ f5 30.Ne6) <26.gxh7+> (26.Nxe7+ Kf8 and White loses material because of the mate threat on d1) <26...Kxh7 27.c4> (threatening 28.Bc2+ Kg8 29.Nxe7+ Kf8 30.Nf5) <27...Qd6!> |
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| Feb-05-11 | | Patriot: The big disappointment in my lines is that I missed an obvious defense in line B.1 which is 22...Rf8. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | Old Wolf: White missed 27.f4!! winning (threat Bd5 and Rh1, black can do nothing). Also overlooked 21.Rxd7 leading to a decisive advantage, I guess he overestimated the game line, Black game was tenable if 26..Qf8. My own solution was 21. Rg1 - which would be a great move if the white king were on b1! |
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| Feb-05-11 | | Eyal: <I'm having trouble with 26...Qf8, with Qe8 and a counter-attack on c2 and the bank rank.> <Black game was tenable if 26..Qf8.> As I've mentioned in a previous post with regard to 27...Qf8 - and the white king being on b1 or c1 doesn't make any substantial difference - it loses to 27/28.Qe4!, renewing the threat of Rxg6+ from move 25, to which Black doesn't have any good defense now, since ...Qg7 drops the rook on a8. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | wals: Did get 20.Rxh5 gxh5, the rest was beyond my ken.
Rybka 4 x 64
BLUNDERS
Black
d 17 : 7 min :
18...Qe8, +1.04. Best,
1.  (-0.33): 18...b4 19.Nd5 Nxd5 20.Rxd5 Qc7 21.Qe3 Rc8 22.Rxe5 e6[] 23.Re4 a5 24.Rc4 Qb7 25.Rxc8+ Qxc8 26.Qa7 Bc6 27.Rd1 Bxf3 28.Rd4 Kg7 29.Qxa5 Qb8 30.Qxb4 Qxb4 31.Rxb4 Rd8 32.c3 h6 2.  (0.27): 18...a5 19.g5 Ne8 20.Qh2 b4 21.Nd5 a4 Black
d 16 : 3 min :
22...Bf5, +6.31. Best, Qg7, +3.66.
Black
d 16 : 9 min :
26...Qh6+, +#14. Best, Qf8, +#19.
White
d 16 : 4 min :
27.Kb1, +8.40. Best, f4, +#14.
Black
d 16 : 6 min :
27...Rf8, +#11. Best, Qf8, +8.40.
Qg7, played at move 22 may have helped Black. |
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Feb-05-11
| | Jimfromprovidence: <Wals> <Black
d 16 : 6 min :
27...Rf8, +#11. Best, Qf8, +8.40.>
So, there's a forced mate after 27...Rf8.
I suspected that all of the pawn shuffling at the end was superfluous. So, after 27...Rf8, then 28 f4 a5 29 f5 a4 30 Bd5 does the trick. 
click for larger viewNow, if 30...a3, then 31 Qe4, triple attacking g6.
click for larger view |
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| Feb-05-11 | | JCRchess: A complicated, but brilliant attack from White. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | rilkefan: <<Eyal>: [re] 27...Qf8 - and the white king being on b1 or c1 doesn't make any substantial difference - it loses to 27/28.Qe4!> Thanks again. I've learned a lot from this puzzle. Clearly I got as far as I did only by luck, and la diritta via was easy to lose. |
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| Feb-05-11 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: White is down two pawns, but has a strong attack against the black king, exploiting an immobilized rook at h8 and weakened dark squares that lack a defending bishop. The strong white bishop exerts strong pressure at f7, suggesting an exchange sac at h5 to allow g6. A little analysis shows that this concept pans out beautifully with the right follow-up: 30.Rxh5! gxh5 31.Rxd7!!
The key move here. I looked first at 31.g6? hxg6 32.Qxg6+ Kf1 and white has to spend a tempo to retreat the queen or go into an inferior endgame with 33.Bxf7. This is certainly not the best white can do with the position. 31... Qxd7 32.g6
Now black has only unsatisfactory defenses to the dual threat of 33.gxf7# and 33.Bxf7#: A) 32... hxg6 33.Qxg6+ Kf8 34.Qxf7#
B) 32... Rf8 33.Ne4! Qd4 (otherwise 34.Ng5) 34.gxf7+ Rxf7 35.Qxh5 Qd3+ 36.Ke1 Qg1+ 37.Ke2 Qg7+ 38.Nf2 and black is out of checks and can't defend 39.Qxf7. C) 32...e6 33.g7 Rd8 (Qe7 34.Ne4 wins) 34.Nd5! ed 35.Qf6 wins. Got to this late after 9 hours of table tennis. Time to verify... |
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| Feb-05-11 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: Wow - I found the Crafty defense but in line C missed that the BW can get back to g6. After that, white is fighting for a draw. Very interesting - may review more tomorrow. |
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| Feb-06-11 | | wals: <JimfromProvindence> Analysis by Rybka 4 x64:
1. (#11): 28.f4 a5 29.f5[] a4 30.Bd5[] b4 31.Qe4 Qg7 32.fxg7 Kxg7 33.fxg6 hxg6 34.Qe5+ f6 35.Qc7+ Kh6 36.Rh1+ Kg5 37.Qg3+ Kf5 38.Rf1# |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 20.Rxh5