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Alexey Shirov vs Vladimir Kramnik
Corus Group A (2010), Wijk aan Zee NED, rd 11, Jan-29
Russian Game: Classical Attack. Jaenisch Variation (C42)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 16 OF 16 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-29-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <51...axb5 52.Ne4 b4 53.Ng3 b3 54.Ne4> g5+
Jan-29-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  WannaBe: Don't challenge the dancing rook!! =)
Jan-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <WannaBe> Well hello team-mate! Will you be joining us for the Brain-game #3? I miss your ... wisdom!
Jan-30-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <bubuli55> Sorry for tuning off, but I have to run.
Jan-30-10  bubuli55: gypsy... Ng3 works on your Ke5 variation.

as to your 52...b4 53.Nc5+

Jan-30-10  bubuli55: 49.Nc7+ wins too
Jan-31-10  bubuli55: 49.Nc7+ Kd7 50.Nb5 a6 51.Nc3 Ke6 52.Kh4 b5 53.axb5 axb5 54.Nxb5 g6 55.Nd4+ Kf6 56.Nf3 h5 57.g5+ Kf5 58.Kg3 Ke4 59.Nh4 Ke5 60.Kf3 Ke6 61.Kf4 Kf7 62.Ke6 1-0
Jan-31-10  bubuli55: other.. 49.Nc7+ Kf6 50.Nb5 a5 51.Nc3 Kg5 52.Nd5+ h5 53.Nxb6 1-0

49.Nc7+ Kf6 50.Nb5 a5 51.Nc3 g5 52.Nd5+ Kg6 53.Nxb6 h5 54.Nc4 1-0

49.Nc7+ Kf6 50.Nb5 a6 51.Nc7 a5 52.Na8 Kg5 53.Nxb6 h5 54.Nc4 1-0

49.Nc7+ Kd7 50.Nb5 a6 51.Nc3 g5 52.Kf3 b5 53.axb5 axb5 54.Ne4 Ke6 55.Ng3 b4 56.Ke3 b3 57.Kd3 Ke5 58.Nh5 b2 59.kc2 Ke4 60.Kxb2 Kf3 61.Nf6 1-0

Feb-01-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <bubuli55: ... as to your [51...axb5 52.Ne4...] 52...b4 53.Nc5+> Kf6
Feb-01-10  bubuli55: hi gypsy. 54.Ne4+
Feb-01-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: Hi <bubuli55>.

<51...axb5 52.Ne4 b4 53.Nc5+ Kf6 54.Ne4+> Ke6

--

But, now I think that the <Ke5 variation> does not really hold water.

Feb-01-10  Eyal: <bubuli55: 49.Nc7+ Kd7 50.Nb5 a6 51.Nc3 Ke6 52.Kh4 b5 53.axb5 axb5 54.Nxb5 g6 55.Nd4+ Kf6 56.Nf3 h5 57.g5+ Kf5 58.Kg3 Ke4 59.Nh4 Ke5 60.Kf3 Ke6 61.Kf4 Kf7 62.Ke6 1-0>

The position after 54.Nxb5 is a tablebase draw (tablebase lets you know the results of positions with 6 pieces or less with absolute certainty) - the reason White is winning in this line is because of the blunder 56...h5?? Instead, Black should basically just keep the king around his pawns without moving them (you can check it out for yourself at http://www.k4it.de/index.php?topic=...).

Feb-01-10  bubuli55: Eyal, thank you for the site. i will check it out when i get home. but if black won't advance his pawns, the black K may be pushed back by white's K and N eventually unable to protect his pawns. still i'll check on the site.
Feb-01-10  bubuli55: Gypsy hello. i have initially divulged the idea that white may keep his g pawn with the premise that black will push his g pawn to g5 to drive back white's K, place black's K to g6 and move h5 to eliminate white's g pawn for a draw.

with you knowing that, to play it now and not push those pawns is futile.

honestly, did you know that white's N on h5 may protect that g pawn with black's pawns on g5 and h6?

but this is not about us. the real question is... going back to the actual game, wouldn't the try be worth it for shirov to continue a few more moves to see if kramnik would fall for it?

Feb-01-10  bubuli55: 51.Ne4 g5+ 52.Ke3 Kf6 53.Ng3 ~ the white K goes for black's bpawn.

if 52...Ke5 53.Ng3 b4 54.Nh5 ~

Feb-01-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <bubuli55: 51.Ne4 g5+ 52.Ke3 Kf6 53.Ng3 ~ the white K goes for black's bpawn.

if 52...Ke5 53.Ng3 b4 54.Nh5 ~>

--

<51.Ne4> bxa4

Feb-02-10  Eyal: <bubuli55: but if black won't advance his pawns, the black K may be pushed back by white's K and N eventually unable to protect his pawns.>

That's true, actually. The point is rather that White cannot both maneuver his K and N to push away the black K and prevent the g5-Kg6-h5 drawing maneuver at the same time. Also, in the line 51.Ne4 g5+ 52.Ke3, instead of K-anywhere?? (your Kf6 is illegal, btw), Black simply plays 52...bxa4, and while the N has to go after the pawn, Black has again time for Kg6-h5. I suppose that Shirov agreed to the draw rather than playing on because in the final position, at his (or Kramnik's) level of play, the draw is so obvious - and the mistakes that Black has to make in order to lose look so ridiculous - that he felt it's futile to hope Kramnik would make them.

Feb-02-10  bubuli55: Eyal, my mistake there. i did not have a chess set in front of me when i posted the moves.

it should have been 52.Ne4 and so on instead of move 51.

and Gypsy, so ...Ke5 is move 53 for black.

Feb-02-10  bubuli55: Eyal, as to illegal Kf6, the point is for black K to go to g6. so make that 53...Kf7
Feb-02-10  bubuli55: Eyal, the only mistake Kramnik might make is 52...g5+ and that is 2 moves away not to find out. they've played more than 3 hrs already. what is 2 moves. and 53...g5+ is not a ridiculous mistake even at that level.
Feb-02-10  Eyal: <bubuli55: Eyal, as to illegal Kf6, the point is for black K to go to g6. so make that 53...Kf7>

You keep changing the move numbers. Look back and see that I was talking about your suggestion of <51.>Ne4 (before the exchange on b5) g5+ <52.>Ke3, and here - as I said - <any> K move by Black would be a blunder; instead he simply plays 52...bxa4, and while the N has to go after the pawn there's time for Kg6-h5. And yes, Shirov could have played another couple of moves and pray for a terrible blunder by Kramnik, but in any case he didn't miss any actual win here at the end.

Feb-02-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <bubuli55: Eyal, my mistake there. i did not have a chess set in front of me when i posted the moves.

it should have been 52.Ne4 and so on instead of move 51.

and Gypsy, so ...Ke5 is move 53 for black. >

<Bubuli>, I'd be happy to serve further as a sounding board, but I can not do that without you being reasonably clear about what position/variation you want to give the workout.

Feb-02-10  Eyal: <bubuli55> It's funny, I now see that I somehow skipped what you said about confusing the move numbers... so I'm sorry about the somewhat irritated tone of my previous post. Now if White tries 52.Ne4, 52...g5+?? 53.Ke3 is indeed losing because of Ng3-h5 that would follow. But Black's drawing plan is still quite simple and similar to the one I've already mentioned - starting with 52...b4, pushing the pawn forward so as to draw away the knight to the Q-side in order to deal with it, and then executing the Kg6-h5 maneuver.
Feb-02-10  Ulhumbrus: 23 Qb3 offers an exchange of Queens in a position where White enjoys greater space based upon central superiority. An alternative to 23 Qb3 is 23 Bh2 avoiding the exchange of Queens eg 23...Rxe4 24 Nxe4 Rf8 25 Kg2
Feb-02-10  bubuli55: ok Eyal, i agree with your last post. everything in it. if you saw 53...g5+ as ?? then i shouldn't even think there is a possibility for Kramnik to do that.

oh well. i'm a 1900. i guess if a GM would ever play against me i would already be in a zugzwang even before i make my first move.

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