Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Posch vs Dorrer
Vienna (1958), Vienna AUT
Four Knights Game: Spanish. Rubinstein Variation Accepted (C48)  ·  1-0



Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games more games of Posch
sac: 15.Qxg7+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
Nov-02-11  Llawdogg: Holy Cow! This is one of the greatest finishes I've ever seen! 15 Qxg7+!! is a fantastic queen sacrifice. Just beautiful. And then 16 Rg5# is a brilliant double check checkmate. This is amazing! Woo Hoo!
Jan-25-12  Llawdogg: The last two moves are beautiful.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Game No.18 in Barden and Heidenfeld's 'Modern Chess Miniatures'.

Also the first game I published in my magazine 'Capa-Tal' Chess (a pun Morf would have liked. It's based on 'Capital Chess' - Edinburgh being the capital of Scotland.)

That magazine became a collectors items. I was sending them all over the globe.

I skipped from No.16 to No.18 not doing a No.17 but kept on in later editions referring to No.17 (which did not exist).

"More complaints about issue No.17, This time from Mrs Phlenge in Surrey who writes that my article proving Staunton was an ex-Welsh Miner which gave him the weak heart, which consequently led to him declining to play Morphy, had more than a few factual errors."

It drove them crazy.

Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <Sally Simpson> I would have thought that you would have named your magazine "Das Capa-Tal Chess".
Apr-29-18  Justin796: Lol...great pun
Premium Chessgames Member
  WorstPlayerEver: Unfortunately Black simply could have played 14... d5, therefore 14. Qg4 is a bit of a blunder.

14. Qe2 d5 15. Rxd5 which is funny, but not too funny.

Apr-29-18  ChessHigherCat: In case anybody else was wondering why not 13...f4, which is a much better defense that "only" loses a minor piece:

1) +4.53 (26 ply) 13.f4 Qf6 14.Qe2 Qb6+ 15.Kf1 Bf6 16.Re8 Bxc3 17.Bc4+ d5 18.Qe7 Qf6 19.Qxf8+ Qxf8 20.Bxd5+ Be6 21.Bxe6+ Kh8 22.Rxf8+ Rxf8 23.bxc3

Premium Chessgames Member
  beatgiant: <Sally Simpson> According to his bio here, d'Horrer lived from 1845 to 1900. The score sheet says this game was played in 1958.

My first guess is that the year here is wrong and it was actually played in 1858, not 1958. Do you still have a copy of Barden and Heidenfeld, and if so, can you confirm what it says?

Otherwise, we'll be haunted by the specter of a zombie horde of punsters with macabre Horror/d'Horrer humor.

Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <beatgiant> What gives me pause is that you have to go all the way to 1909 to find another example of the position after 6.e5 in the database.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

Hi beatgiant,

It is game 4 (page 15) Barden and Heidenfeld may not have trusted their source, they give:

Wite: Posch
Black: Dorrer

[no initials]

Vienna 1957(?)

The '(?)' is from the book so that indicates they are not 100% sure about the date or place but probably felt it was too good to leave out.

The intro states they are following in the footsteps of Mr.du Mont (' 200 Miniature Games of Chess' and ' More Miniature Games.') Du Mont seems to have used everything worthy (and this game is worthy) played before 1953.

This one may have escaped du Mont and re-surfaced in a publication/newspaper column in 1957 (or 1958).

But played in 1857/1858 is possibly having 4..Nd4 too early. (though not impossible) Here it made it's debut in Steinitz vs H C Plunkett, 1876

I'd go with 'Dorrer' and the name they have here being wrong.

Chess Review, 1959, page 53 has it as Posch - Dorrer, [no initials] Vienna 1958. (not 1957) They could not have got it from the Barden/Heidenfeld book as that was published in 1960.

Did Barden and Heidenfeld get it from 'Chess Review' maybe but the date is different. Think two sources were involved.


Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

(see above)

Now the search is on to find when it first found it's way into the opening trap books - that may give an indication of when it was played.

Cannot find a reference to it (yet) however M.C.O.7 (1947) page 59 has some analysis from Dr.Olland showing the dangers of snatching the pawn with 7...cxd2+ and gives a variation that was followed 38 years later J Shipman vs Weber, 1985 where 11...Qxb5 was played and Dr Olland gives 12.Qg4, as was played by Shipman, a good plus.

It seems 7...cxd2+ was first played in 1913 by Breyer of all people W A T Schelfhout vs Breyer, 1913 he got away with it.

Blackburne! played it in T Germann vs Blackburne, 1918 and got walloped.

Neither game kibitz'd. ( a couple of 'firsts' waiting to be bagged there.) all this leads to it not being played in the 1800's.

The game closest prior to our game with authentic details is Z Milev vs A Fuderer, 1954 with Black playing 13...g6 instead of here 13...h6.

Without all the details our game smacks of a skittles game. the 1954 game could have been noted up with a 'what happens if 13...h6' variation and friend Posche had been hawking it around Vienna for a year or two waiting for a victim.


Sep-02-19  spingo: Hammer d'Horrer.

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
queen sacrifice precedes lethal double check
from Del's hidden gems by Delboy
Game No.18 in Barden and Heidenfeld's 'Modern Chess Miniatures'
from 1950s Barious Beauties & Bonehead BBQs by fredthebear
mate in 16 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by Okavango
Premiers pas aux échecs
by m4rcm77
simple queen sac
from Queen sacrifices 1 by obrit
Four Knights' Game
from Modern Chess Miniatures by igiene
Game No.18 in Barden and Heidenfeld's 'Modern Chess Miniatures'
from 17 Moves or Less in Fredthebear's Lavatory by fredthebear
mate in 16 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by 3sun3moon
working on
by wwm
Four Knights' Game
from Modern Chess Miniatures by Benzol
Four Knights' Game
from Modern Chess Miniatures by nakul1964
mate in 16 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by wwall
mate in 16 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by nionios
mate in 16 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by hought67

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC