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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jun-12-21 | | Robespierre: To Mephisto: Everyone rejoices when a lamb returns to the fold! [Please pardon my Scriptural reference!] |
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| Jun-12-21 | | Brenin: The initial 19 ... Rxf3 20 gxf3 Qxd4 is obvious, as is Black's attempt to repair the roof of the fortress with 21 Ne2 and 22 Ng3. After that (for me, at least) it's a question of judgment rather than calculation whether White can defend himself adequately. |
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| Jun-12-21 | | mel gibson: I saw the first few moves easily but that was a guess. Stockfish 13 has a different answer:
19... c5
(19. .. c5 (c6-c5 d4xc5 ♕b6xc5 ♕c2-d1 ♕c5-b6 ♖c1-c2 ♖c8-f8 ♘c3-e2 ♗d6-b4
♘e2-c3 ♔g8-h8 h2-h3 ♖f6xf3 g2xf3 ♗b4-a5 ♘c3-a4 ♕b6-d6 ♖e1-e3 ♗a6-b5 ♘a4-c3
♗b5-e8 ♘c3-e4 ♕d6-f4 ♘e4-g3 ♗a5-b6 ♖c2-e2 ♕f4-h4 ♔g1-g2 ♕h4-f6 ♕d1-d3
♗b6xe3 ♖e2xe3 ♗e8-d7 b2-b3 ♗d7-c6 ♘g3-h5 ♕f6-g5+ ♘h5-g3 e6-e5) +1.58/38
183)
score for Black +1.58 depth 38
If I force Stockfish to take the Knight then it
calls the game a draw:
19... Rxf3
20.gxf3
(20. gxf3 (g2xf3 ♕b6xd4 ♕c2-a4 ♗a6-c4 ♘c3-e4 ♗d6-f4 ♖e1-d1 ♕d4xb2
♖c1xc4 d5xc4 ♕a4xc4 ♕b2-e5 ♔g1-g2 ♖c8-f8 ♕c4xc6 ♗f4xh2 ♖d1-c1 ♗h2-f4 ♖c1-c5
♕e5-b8 ♕c6xe6+ ♔g8-h7 ♖c5-f5 ♖f8xf5 ♕e6xf5+ ♔h7-g8 ♕f5-e6+ ♔g8-h8 ♕e6-g4
♕b8-f8 ♕g4-d7 a7-a5 a2-a4 ♗f4-b8 ♘e4-g3 ♗b8xg3 f2xg3 ♕f8-b4 g3-g4 ♕b4-b2+
♔g2-h3 ♕b2-b4) 0.00/47 130)
score 0.00 draw. |
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| Jun-12-21 | | stacase: First two moves are a gimme. |
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| Jun-12-21 | | NBZ: <Mephisto>: Your comment intrigued me and I took the liberty of clicking on your profile. Can it indeed be the case that you waited 16 years to post your first comment? |
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| Jun-12-21 | | login:
Unrelated (no nitpicking)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN4...
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Jun-12-21
 | | agb2002: Black has the bishop pair for both knights.
The first idea that comes to mind is 19... Rxf3 20.gxf3 Qxd4 (20... Qd8 21.Qg6 looks bad for Black) 21.Qa4 seems to stop the attack (... Qh4). For example, 21... Bc4 22.Ne4 (blocks the fourth rank again, controls f6 and exploits the overburdened d-pawn but 22.b3 Qh4 23.bxc4 Qh3 followed Bxh2+, Rf8, Rf5 is probably winning for Black) 22... Bb8 23.b3 looks bad for Black. Another option is to prepare the attack and set a trap with 19... Rcf8. For example, 20.Na4 Qd8 21.Qxc6 Rxf3 22.Qxa6 (22.gxf3 Qg5+ 23.Kh1 Qf4 wins decisive material) 22... Bxh2+ 23.Kxh2 (23.Kf1 Rxf2#, 23.Kh1 Qh4 and mate soon) 23... Qh4+ 24.Kg1 Qxf2+ seems to win. However, 20.Na4 is not forced. The most natural move is probably 19... c5, increasing the pressure on White's position and this is what I'd play on the board. |
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Jun-12-21
| | agb2002: <mel gibson: ...
Stockfish 13 has a different answer>
A positional puzzle. |
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Jun-12-21
 | | chrisowen: Humbug evicts hoot Rxf3 flusher abridge axled its a finish pine its low lavish humbug evicts hoot cups barbeque bets debt favours wrinkle gods goya hums evicts zilch its picture quad enthrall its law its roger bunny numb vest pc5 flubbs haggle one its jug evicts etceteras evicts totadd iota cervix face its hack its captain within thrilly its lent Rxf3 ear; |
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| Jun-12-21 | | AlicesKnight: Had the correct (game) break-in - several possibilities in follow-up; I was puzzled by 24.Qg4 which seemed to set up problems for White, not relieve them. Is 24.Rxc6 so bad? - prospect of giving back the exchange for one of the Bs. |
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Jun-12-21
 | | Once: I often think that the exchange is worth two pawns or one pawn and a "reason to be cheerful". With 19... Rxf3 and 20...Qxd4 we get a pawn and we muss up white's pawn structure for our bishop pair to exploit. But I can't say I was entirely convinced that it was worth it. Having seen the game continuation I'm still not convinced. |
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| Jun-12-21 | | Hercdon: An unclear sac |
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Jun-12-21
 | | al wazir: Make that <26. Qxg7+ Qxg7+ 27. Nxg7 Rxg7+> 28. Kh1. (If 28. Kf1, then 28...Ba6+.) |
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| Jun-12-21 | | Refused: 19...Rxf3 20.gxf3 Qxd4 looked like the way to go. But that's more of a <that has to be correct> sacrifice. I can't see a clear k.o. blow as a follow up. White's play here feel sub-optimal. |
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Jun-12-21
| | chrisowen: Rf3 it is aether ooh no? |
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| Jun-12-21 | | Dionysius1: Can't claim to have got it. Totally missed 22...♖c7. |
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Jun-12-21
| | chrisowen: Sorry |
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Jun-12-21
 | | OhioChessFan: I think to solve, you need to play c5, not Rxf3. |
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| Jun-12-21 | | njchess: 22. ... ♖c7 is a sublime move, and I think the justification for 19. ... ♖xf3. It allows Black to bring his light squared bishop to bear on White's light squared deficient kingside. All of a sudden, White's doubled f3 pawn is a glaring weak spot. Nicely done. |
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Jun-12-21
 | | Breunor: According to Stockfish on 100 fuel, there isn't a winning move. Not sure why I'm getting a different result from Mel Gibson. Maybe you ran it longer, this is a 15 minute run: I see:
1) -0.63 (32 ply) 19...c5 20.Qb3 cxd4 21.Qxb6 axb6 22.Nxd4 Rc4 23.Nf3 g5 24.Ne5 Bxe5 25.Rxe5 Kf7 26.Ree1 g4 27.a3 Rff4 28.b4 b5 29.Red1 Kf6 30.Kf1 Rc8 31.Ne2 Rfc4 32.Rxc4 Rxc4 33.Ke1 Bc8 34.Rd3 Bd7 35.Kd2 Bc6 36.Nd4 Ke5 37.f4+ gxf3 38.Nxc6+ Rxc6 39.Rxf3 Rc4 2) -0.60 (32 ply) 19...Qd8 20.Ne5 Rf5 21.Qa4 Qb6 22.Nf3 Rf6 23.Qb3 Qxb3 24.axb3 c5 25.Ra1 cxd4 26.Rxa6 dxc3 27.bxc3 e5 28.Ra5 e4 29.Nd4 Rxc3 30.Rxd5 Bb4 31.h4 Rxb3 32.Rxe4 Rb1+ 33.Kh2 Rxf2 34.Re8+ Kh7 35.h5 Re1 36.Rxe1 Bxe1 37.Ne6 Rf7 38.Rd8 Bb4 39.Nd4 Bc3 40.g3 Bxd4 41.Rxd4 3) -0.56 (31 ply) 19...Rcf8 20.Ne2 Rc8 21.Qb3 Qxb3 22.axb3 Bb4 23.Nc3 c5 24.dxc5 Bxc5 25.Na4 Bb4 26.Rxc8+ Bxc8 27.Rc1 Bb7 28.Nc5 Bxc5 29.Rxc5 Rf4 30.Rc7 Rb4 31.h3 a5 32.Re7 Kh7 33.Rxe6 d4 34.Ne5 Rxb3 35.Rd6 Rxb2 36.Rxd4 Rb5 37.Nf3 Rb1+ 38.Kh2 Bxf3 39.gxf3 Al Wazir, Stockfish though does say 26 Qxg7 is lost: 1) -4.95 (25 ply) 26...Qxg7+ 27.Nxg7 Kxg7 28.b3 Kf6 29.h4 Ba3 30.Rcd1 Bb4 31.Re2 Bf5 32.Kh2 Bc3 33.Rc1 Bd3 34.Re3 Bd2 35.Rc5 Bxe3 36.fxe3 Bb1 37.a3 Ba2 38.b4 d4 39.exd4 exd4 40.Rc1 Bd5 41.Kg3 Rg7+ 42.Kf2 |
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Jun-12-21
 | | Gregor Samsa Mendel: <aw>--According to The Computer, 26 Qxg7+ would have been the "best" choice, but leads to a dead lost endgame: <1) -4.57 (25 ply) 26.Qxg7+ Qxg7+ 27.Nxg7 Kxg7 28.b4 Kf6 29.a3 c5 30.bxc5 Bxc5 31.Kg2 Bb7 32.f4 Rg7+ 33.Kf1 Bxa3 34.fxe5+ Kf5 35.Ra1 Ba6+ 36.Re2 Bxe2+ 37.Kxe2 Bb4 38.Ra6 Kxe5 39.Rxh6 a5 40.Rh4 Rg1 41.Kf3 Re1 42.Rh6 Kd4 43.Rh4+ Kc3 > After the queen exchange, in hindsight, it seem obvious that black should centralize the king and advance the center pawns. Hence 27..Kg7, 28..Kf6, and 29..c5. Grandmasters probably would know about this without Computer assistance. |
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Jun-12-21
| | Gregor Samsa Mendel: And I see that <Breunor> has beat me to the punch on this. But I can console myself by saying that I provided a plausible explanation for the line to satisfy a patzer like myself. |
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Jun-12-21
| | al wazir: <Breunor: Stockfish though does say 26 Qxg7 is lost.> <Gregor Samsa Mendel: According to The Computer, 26 Qxg7+ would have been the "best" choice, but leads to a dead lost endgame.> Thanks for posting that. I didn't look at 27...Kxg7. But anyway, after 26. Qxg7+ white holds out for another 16 moves, so it's an improvement. |
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| Jun-13-21 | | hdcc: Black and tan. |
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| Jun-15-21 | | Dionysius1: < njchess: 22. ... ♖c7 is a sublime move, and I think the justification for 19. ... ♖xf3> Isn't it just? If I was black, that's the move I'd have been proudest of. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 19...Rxf3