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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| May-07-08 | | MarkThornton: CORRECTION OF MY LAST POST:
click for larger viewWhite to move.
In this position, I wrote that Black's threat was <41...Qe3+ 42. Kg2 Qe4+ 43. Kf1 Kh3> But with the White Q on the 3rd rank, 43...Kh3??? is a terrible blunder, i.e. 44. Nf2+! 1-0 However, Black does have a deadly threat in this position, i.e. <41....Qd1+ 42. Kg2 Qe2+ 43. Kg1 Kh3>. Hence, White's only hope is <41. Qc8>, threatening Qxe6+, and the rest of my analysis is OK. |
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| May-07-08 | | MarkThornton: In fact, after <37. Qc3 Kg4 38. a4 Bg3!> may be the quickest win, i.e. <39. Qc8 Kf3 40. Qf8+ Ke3 41. Qh6 Bh4! 0-1> |
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| May-07-08 | | MarkThornton: I've come to believe that <rinus>'s defensive line, starting <41. Nb4> would have held for White: <Analysis by Fruit 2.3.1 (30-ply): 1. (-0.30): 41.Nb4 Ke4 42.Nc6 a5 43.Nxa5 Kxd4 44.a4 Kxe5 45.Nb7 d4 46.a5 d3 47.Kf1 d2 48.Ke2 g4 49.Kxd2 g3 50.a6 g2 51.a7 g1Q 52.a8Q > 
click for larger viewFrom this position, the best I have found for Black is this: 52...Bg5+ 53. Kc2 Qc1+ 54. Kb3 Qd1+ 55. Ka2 Qd5+ 56. Ka1 Bd2! 
click for larger viewBlack's plan is to restrict the Nb7, keep his Queen and Bishop close to the opponent's King, guard the squares in front of the e-pawn and then advance it. One possible continuation is <57. Qb8+ Ke4 58. Nd6+ Kd3 59. Nb5 e5> Realistically, Black cannot force a win here, as White must be able to exchange Black's final pawn for his knight. But Black does have enough initiative to make White work for the draw. To sum up: in a rapid game, Black has good chances, at classical time-limits, he has a few chances, in a correspondence game, it's a draw. |
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May-07-08
 | | rinus: <MarkThornton>
After <41.Nb4 Ke4 42.Nc6 a5>
or <41.Nb4 a5 42.Nc6 Ke4> Van de Loo,C - M Hesseling, Shackwick-on-sea Open 2008
click for larger viewAnalysis by Fruit 2.3.1 (32-ply):
1. (-0.18): 43.Nxa5 Kxd4 44.Nb7 Kxe5 45.a4 d4 46.a5 d3 47.Kf1 g4 48.a6 d2 49.Ke2 g3 50.a7 g2 51.a8Q d1Q+ 52.Kxd1 g1Q+ 53.Kc2 Qg2+ 54.Kb1 Qe4+ 55.Ka1 Be7 56.Qh8+ Kf4 57.Qh6+ Kg4 58.Qg7+ Bg5 2. (-0.23): 43.a4 Be1 44.Nd8 Kxd4 45.Nxe6+ Kxe5 46.Nxg5 Bb4 47.Kf2 Kd4 48.Nf3+ Kc4 49.Ke3 Bc5+ 50.Kf4 Bb6 51.Ne5+ Kb4 52.Nf3 Ba7 53.Ke5 Kc5 54.Kf4 Bb6 55.b3 Bd8 56.Kf5 Bc7 57.Ng5 Kb4 58.Ne6 Bg3 3. (-0.46): 43.a3 a4 44.Nd8 Kf5 45.Nb7 g4 46.Nc5 Be7 47.Nxa4 Ke4 48.b4 Kxd4 49.Kg3 Kxe5 50.Kxg4 Ke4 51.Nc5+ Bxc5 52.bxc5 d4 53.c6 d3 54.c7 d2 55.c8Q d1Q+ 56.Kh4 Qe1+ 57.Kh3 Qf1+ 58.Kh2 Qf2+ Things are getting more drawish.
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| May-07-08 | | MarkThornton: <rinus> I am sure you are correct. <41. Nb4> draws. |
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May-09-08
| | rinus: <MarkThornton> Your request: After <41.Nb4 Ke4 42.Nc6 a5 43.Nxa5 Kxd4 44.a4 Kxe5 45.Nb7 d4 46.a5 d3 47.Kf1 d2 48.Ke2 g4 49.Kxd2 g3 50.a6 g2 51.a7 g1Q 52.a8Q> 1: Van de Loo,C - M Hesseling, Shackwick-on-sea Open 2008
click for larger viewAnalysis by Fruit 2.3.1 (23-ply):
1. (-0.18): 52...Bg5+ 53.Kc2 Qg2+ 54.Kb1 Qe4+ 55.Ka1 Qh1+ 56.Ka2 Qd5+ 57.Kb1 Qd3+ 58.Ka2 Qc4+ 59.Ka1 Be7 60.Qh8+ Kf4 61.Qh2+ Kg5 62.Qg2+ Kf5 63.Qf3+ Kg6 64.Kb1 Qh4 65.Qg2+ Kf7 66.Qf3+ Kg7 67.Qg2+ Kh8 68.Ka2 2. (-0.18): 52...Qd4+ 53.Kc2 Qe4+ 54.Kb3 Qd5+ 55.Kc2 Qc4+ 56.Kb1 Qd3+ 57.Ka1 Qd1+ 58.Ka2 Qd5+ 59.Kb1 Qe4+ 60.Ka1 Be7 61.Qh8+ Kd5 62.Qc8 Qb4 63.Kb1 Qb5 64.Qc3 Qf1+ 65.Kc2 Qf5+ 66.Kb3 Ke4 67.Kc2 Kf4+ 68.Qd3 3. (-0.18): 52...Qf2+ 53.Kc1 Bg5+ 54.Kb1 Qf1+ 55.Ka2 Qc4+ 56.Ka1 Be7 57.Qh8+ Kf4 58.Qh2+ Kg5 59.Qg2+ Kf5 60.Qf3+ Kg6 61.Kb1 Qh4 62.Qg2+ Kf7 63.Qf3+ Kg8 64.Qg2+ Kh8 65.Ka2 e5 66.Qd5 Qg3 67.Nd6 Bxd6 68.Qxd6 4. (-0.18): 52...Qg2+ 53.Kc1 Bg5+ 54.Kb1 Qe4+ 55.Ka1 Qh1+ 56.Ka2 Qd5+ 57.Kb1 Qd3+ 58.Ka2 Qc4+ 59.Ka1 Be7 60.Qh8+ Kf4 61.Qh2+ Kg5 62.Qd2+ Kh5 63.Qd7 Qb4 64.Qd1+ Kg5 65.Qg1+ Kf6 66.Qf1+ Ke5 67.Qh1 Qa4+ 68.Kb1 All evals are equal ---> draw.
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May-13-08
| | rinus: <MarkThornton> After <22.Be3> Then <22...Qe2+ 23.Kh3(forced) Qe1> Van de Loo,C - M Hesseling, Shackwick-on-sea Open 2008
click for larger viewAnalysis by Fruit 2.3.1 (20-ply):
1. (-1.43): 24.Bf4 g5 25.Qb3 Qf1+ 26.Kg4 Qxf4+ 27.Kh5 Qf7+ 28.Kh6 g4 29.Qd3 Qf4+ 30.Kh7 Ne8 31.Qg6 Qxd4 32.Nc3 Qxe5 33.Rh1 Nf6+ 34.Kh6 Qf4+ 35.Kg7 Ne8+ 36.Kh7 Be7 37.Re1 Qh2+ 38.Kg8 2. (-3.14): 24.Kg4 Qg3+ 25.Kh5 Be7 26.Nc3 Qxe3 27.Kg6 Qh6+ 28.Kf7 g5 29.Qxc7+ Kxc7 30.Kxe7 g4 31.Na4 Qh7+ 32.Kxe6 Qxc2 33.Nc5 Qxb2 34.Rf1 Qxd4 35.Rf7+ Kb6 36.Nd7+ Kb5 37.Rg7 Qf4 38.Nf6 g3 3. (-11.22): 24.Qxc7+ Kxc7 25.Kg4 Qxe3 26.Kxh4 Qxd4+ 27.Kh3 Qxb2 28.Nd2 Qxa1 29.Nf3 Qxa2 30.Ng5 Qxc2 31.Nxe6+ Kd7 32.Ng5 Qc3+ 33.Kh4 Qxe5 34.Kg4 c5 35.Nf3 Qe4+ 36.Kg3 d4 4. (-12.05): 24.Bf2 Qh1+ 25.Kg4 Qe4+ 26.Kh3 Bxf2 27.Qb3 Qh1+ 28.Kg4 Nb5 29.Qh3 Qe4+ 30.Kg5 Nxd4 31.Nd2 Be3+ 32.Qxe3 Qxe3+ 33.Kg4 Qxd2 34.Kh3 Qxc2 35.Rg1 Qf5+ 36.Rg4 c5 37.a3 Qxe5 38.Kg2 Qe2+ 39.Kg3 Next after <24.Bf4 g5>. |
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| May-14-08 | | MarkThornton: <rinus: After <22.Be3> then <22...Qe2+ 23.Kh3(forced) Qe1> Van de Loo,C - M Hesseling, Shackwick-on-sea Open 2008 Analysis by Fruit 2.3.1 (20-ply):
1. (-1.43): 24.Bf4 g5 25.Qb3 Qf1+ 26.Kg4 Qxf4+ 27.Kh5 Qf7+ 28.Kh6 g4 29.Qd3 Qf4+ 30.Kh7 Ne8 31.Qg6 Qxd4 32.Nc3 Qxe5 33.Rh1 Nf6+ 34.Kh6 Qf4+ 35.Kg7 Ne8+ 36.Kh7 Be7 37.Re1 Qh2+ 38.Kg8> This fascinating analysis ends in this wild position: 
click for larger viewBlack to move.
At first sight, this is totally unclear, but detailed analysis starts to convince me of the computer's assessment. My main line goes <38...Nf6+ 39. Kg7> [39. Kf7?? Qh8! mates] and now branches as follows: 1A) <39....g3> 40. Re2 1B) <39....e5> 40. Rf1 1C) <39....Qf2> 40. Re2 Qd4 threatening discovered checks. All look promising for Black, but I don't know which is best. |
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| May-14-08 | | MarkThornton: <rinus: <22.Be3 Qe2+ 23.Kh3 Qe1> Analysis by Fruit 2.3.1 (20-ply):
1. (-1.43): 24.Bf4 g5 25.Qb3 Qf1+ 26.Kg4 Qxf4+ 27.Kh5 Qf7+ 28.Kh6 g4 29.Qd3 Qf4+ 30.Kh7 Ne8 31.Qg6 Qxd4 32.Nc3 Qxe5 33.Rh1 Nf6+ 34.Kh6 Qf4+ 35.Kg7 Ne8+ 36.Kh7 Be7 37.Re1 Qh2+ 38.Kg8> What about <25. Nd2!?> 
click for larger view<25...Qxa1> looks forced, when White has <26. Qb4>. [26. Bh2 is also worth looking at.] After 26...gxf4 27. Kxh4 Qe1+ 28. Kh5, Black is better, but I think White should hold that ending. Please let me know if I am missing something in this line. |
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| May-14-08 | | MarkThornton: I think I have answered to the question I posed in my last post: 22. Be3 Qe2+ 23. Kh3 Qe1 24. Bf4 g5 < 25. Nd2> Qxa1 26. Qb4 Qe1 27. Bh2 [26. Bh2 Qe1 27. Qb4 would transpose] 27...Qe3+ 28. Kg4 Qe2+ 29. Kh3 <Be1!> [It took me a long time to find this move.] 
click for larger viewBlack threatens a very unusual mate with 30...g4#, and to capture the Nd2. White's only hope is to seek perpetual check. 30. Qd6+ Kc8 31. Qf8+ Kb7 32. Qb4+ Nb5 33. Qe7+ Ka6 White has run out of checks, so 34. Qxg5 Qxd2 and Black wins. |
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May-14-08
| | rinus: <MarkThornton> This is what I have at 27-ply. After <22.Be3 Qe2+ 23.Kh3 Qe1 24.Bf4 g5> Van de Loo,C - M Hesseling, Shackwick-on-sea Open 2008
click for larger viewAnalysis by Fruit 2.3.1 (27-ply):
1. (-0.61): 25.Nd2 Qxa1 26.Qb4 Qh1+ 27.Bh2 c5 28.dxc5 Be1 29.c6+ Ke8 30.Qd4 Kf7 31.c4 g4+ 32.Qxg4 Bxd2 33.Qe2 Qc1 34.Qf3+ Kg8 35.Qg4+ Bg5 36.cxd5 Qf1+ 37.Qg2 Qd3+ 38.Qg3 Qxg3+ 39.Bxg3 Nxd5 40.Kg4 Be3 2. (-2.66): 25.Qb3 Qf1+ 26.Kg4 Qxf4+ 27.Kh5 Qf7+ 28.Kg4 Qf5+ 29.Kh5 Qh7+ etc.
I'll slide forward to the point of deviation of your and my (engine) line. |
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| May-15-08 | | MarkThornton: <rinus: <MarkThornton> This is what I have at 27-ply. <22.Be3 Qe2+ 23.Kh3 Qe1 24.Bf4 g5> Analysis by Fruit 2.3.1 (27-ply):
1. (-0.61): 25.Nd2 Qxa1 26.Qb4 Qh1+ 27.Bh2 c5 28.dxc5 Be1 29.c6+ Ke8 30.Qd4 Kf7 31.c4 g4+ 32.Qxg4 Bxd2 33.Qe2 Qc1 34.Qf3+ Kg8 35.Qg4+ Bg5 36.cxd5 Qf1+ 37.Qg2 Qd3+ 38.Qg3 Qxg3+ 39.Bxg3 Nxd5 40.Kg4 Be3> Once again, Fruit's analyis ends in a position that is tricky to evaluate: 
click for larger viewBlack's bishop is of the same colour as the queening square of the QRP, and his e6 pawn is hard to attack. So I think Black might win this. But I wouldn't stake any money on it. Rolling back a move, <40. Bf2> looks a better defence than 40. Kg4, e.g. 40...a6 41. Bc5 
click for larger viewWhite threatens both 42. Bd6 and to advance his Q-side pawns with b4, a4, b5, etc. That might generate enough counterplay to earn a draw. |
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| May-16-08 | | MarkThornton: <MarkThornton: I think I have answered to the question I posed in my last post:
22. Be3 Qe2+ 23. Kh3 Qe1 24. Bf4 g5 < 25. Nd2> Qxa1 26. Qb4 Qe1 27. Bh2 [26. Bh2 Qe1 27. Qb4 would transpose]> I now want to take this back. At move 27, White can search for a perpetual check with <27. Qd6+>, and this seems to work, i.e. 
click for larger viewA) <27...Kc8> 28. Qf8+ Kb7 29. Qb4+ Nb5 30. Qe7+ Ka6 
click for larger viewWhite has run out of checks, but he has time for a quiet move: <31. Qe8!> Nxd4 [31...gxf4?? 32. Qxc6+ mates] 32. Qc8+ Ka5 33. Qc7+ Ka6 34. Qc8+ Kb6 35. Qb8+ Ka6 36. Qc8+ 1/2-1/2. B) <27...Ke8?> 28. Qxc6+ Kf8 29. Qd6+ Kg8 30. Qd8+ Kh7 31. Qe7+ and Black cannot stop the checks. So, if Black wants to search for a win at move 26, he has to look at the line given by <rinus>, which starts with <26...Qh1+>. |
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| May-16-08 | | MarkThornton: <<rinus> 1. (-0.61): <22. Be3 Qe2+ 23. Kh3 Qe1 24. Bf4 g5 25.Nd2> Qxa1 26.Qb4 Qh1+ 27.Bh2 c5 28.dxc5 Be1 29.c6+ Ke8 30.Qd4 Kf7 31.c4 g4+ 32.Qxg4 Bxd2 33.Qe2 Qc1 34.Qf3+ Kg8 35.Qg4+ Bg5 36.cxd5 Qf1+ 37.Qg2 Qd3+ 38.Qg3 Qxg3+ 39.Bxg3 Nxd5 40.Kg4 Be3> Here's another defensive try for White: <28. Qxc5> 
click for larger viewDue to White Q's threats of perpetual check, Black's only chance of a win is <28...g4+ 29. Kxh4 Qxh2+ 30. Kxg4 Qxd2 31. Qxa7> 
click for larger viewBlack to move. This position looks difficult to win. |
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| May-16-08 | | MarkThornton: <<rinus> 1. (-0.61): <22. Be3 Qe2+ 23. Kh3 Qe1 24. Bf4 g5 25.Nd2> Qxa1 26.Qb4 Qh1+ 27.Bh2 c5 28.dxc5 Be1 29.c6+ Ke8 30.Qd4 Kf7 31.c4 g4+ 32.Qxg4 Bxd2 33.Qe2 Qc1 34.Qf3+ Kg8 35.Qg4+ Bg5 36.cxd5 Qf1+ 37.Qg2 Qd3+ 38.Qg3 Qxg3+ 39.Bxg3 Nxd5 40.Kg4 Be3> I've found a surprising sub-variation at move 30 in this line. <30. Qb8+? Kf7 31. Qxc7+ Kg6> wins a piece with check, but leads to this remarkable position: 
click for larger viewWhite, to move, has no defence against the threat <32...g4+ 33. Kxg4 Qg2+ 34. Kf4 Bxd2#> |
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May-17-08
| | rinus: <MarkThornton> The forward slide. After <22.Be3 Qe2+ 23.Kh3 Qe1 24.Bf4 g5 <35.Nd2 Qxa1 26.Qb4>> Van de Loo,C - M Hesseling, Shackwick-on-sea Open 2008
click for larger viewAnalysis by Fruit 2.3.1 (27-ply):
1. (-0.91): 26...Ne8 27.Qb7+ Kd8 28.Qb8+ Ke7 29.Qxa7+ Kd8 30.Qb8+ Kd7 31.Qb7+ Nc7 32.Qb4 Qh1+ 33.Bh2 Nb5 34.a4 Be1 35.axb5 g4+ 36.Kxg4 Qg2+ 37.Kh5 Qxh2+ 38.Kg6 Qg3+ 39.Kh5 Qh3+ 40.Kg6 Qf5+ 41.Kg7 Qg5+ 42.Kh7 2. (-0.82): 26...a5 27.Qd6+ Kc8 28.Qf8+ Kb7 29.Be3 Qxb2 30.Nb3 Qc3 31.Nc5+ Ka7 32.Nd3 Qxc2 33.Qc5+ Qxc5 34.Nxc5 Be1 35.a4 Bb4 36.Nd3 Na6 37.Kg4 Bc3 38.Kxg5 Nb4 39.Nf4 Nc2 40.Ne2 Bb4 41.Bf2 Kb6 42.Nf4 3. (-0.71): 26...Qh1+ 27.Bh2 Ne8 28.Qb7+ Kd8 29.Qb8+ Ke7 30.Qb4+ Kf7 31.Qc3 Kg8 32.Qd3 Ng7 33.Nf3 Nf5 34.Qe2 Ng3 35.Qe1 Qxf3 36.Bxg3 Qf5+ 37.Kg2 Bxg3 38.Qxg3 Qxc2+ 39.Qf2 Qb1 40.Qd2 Qe4+ 41.Kg3 Qh4+ 42.Kg2 4. (-0.68): 26...c5 27.dxc5 Qh1+ 28.Bh2 Be1 29.c6+ Ke8 30.Qd4 Kf7 31.c4 g4+ 32.Qxg4 Bxd2 33.Qe2 Bh6 34.Qf2+ Ke8 35.Qf6 Bf8 36.Qg6+ Kd8 37.Qf7 Be7 38.Qg8+ Ne8 39.c7+ Kxc7 40.Qxe8 Qf1+ 41.Kg3 Bb4 42.Qxe6 5. (-0.55): 26...gxf4 27.Kxh4 Qe1+ 28.Kh5 Qe2+ 29.Kh6 c5 30.dxc5 Qxe5 31.Nf3 Qf6+ 32.Kh5 e5 33.c4 Qf7+ 34.Kh4 Qg7 35.Ng5 d4 36.Qb7 Qg6 37.Kg4 d3 38.Qe4 Qxe4 39.Nxe4 Kc6 40.Kf5 Na6 41.Kxe5 Nxc5 42.Nd2 6. (-0.23): 26...Nb5 27.a4 Qh1+ 28.Bh2 Be1 29.axb5 g4+ 30.Kxg4 Qg2+ 31.Kh5 Qxh2+ 32.Kg6 Qg2+ 33.Kf7 Qf2+ 34.Kg8 Qg3+ 35.Kf7 Qf4+ 36.Kg8 Qg4+ 37.Kh8 Qh4+ 38.Kg7 Qg5+ 39.Kh7 Qf5+ 40.Kh8 Ke8 41.bxc6 Qh3+ 42.Kg7 7. (0.00): 26...Ke8 27.Qd6 Qh1+ 28.Bh2 g4+ 29.Kxh4 Qxh2+ 30.Kxg4 Qxd2 31.Qxc7 Qxd4+ 32.Kg5 Qe3+ 33.Kg6 Qe4+ 34.Kf6 Qf5+ 35.Kg7 Qg5+ 36.Kh7 Qh4+ 37.Kg7 Qg5+ 8. (0.00): 26...Qe1 27.Qd6+ Kc8 28.Qf8+ Kb7 29.Qb4+ Nb5 30.Qe7+ Ka6 31.Qxe6 Kb6 32.Qc8 gxf4 33.Qb8+ Ka5 34.Nb3+ Ka4 35.Nc5+ Ka5 36.Nb7+ Kb6 37.Nc5+ Ka5 Option (1)/<26...Ne8> leads to nothing; I've checked that on another computer. But Black has 4 more viable moves. |
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May-11-09
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: All of which proves that this obscure Van de Loo chap has been on the giving and receiving end of two of the most stunning theoretical novelties in chess history. Rather well done, given that he has exactly two games in the CG database! |
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May-11-09
 | | pawn to QB4: Shackwick-on-Sea is also very obscure: I'm not aware of any such place in England. Has any kibitzer played there, maybe been for an ice cream and a stroll on the prom there? or come across any other games from this open - or know anything more about either of these presumably excellent players? |
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May-11-09
| | An Englishman: Good Evening: <pawn to QB4>, in the game P Hulshof vs E L'Ami, 2003, <MarkThornton> refers to both Van de Loo games as composed. If true, these are excellent compositions, and "Shadwick-on-Sea" an excellent composed name. |
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| May-11-09 | | MarkThornton: I don't know of a place called Shackwick-on-Sea. But it does sound like "Schaak, Wijk aan Zee". Perhaps a chess journalist filed a report by telephone from the Netherlands and his newspaper made a mistake? |
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May-11-09
| | pawn to QB4: <"Schaak, Wijk aan Zee".> if your suggestion was a move, it'd be worth at least an exclamation mark. Beautiful. |
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| May-11-09 | | MarkThornton: <pawn to QB4> Thanks, you're very kind. |
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| Sep-06-09 | | WhiteRook48: well this is interesting |
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| Dec-25-13 | | MarkThornton: I have fed this game into Stockfish! and it immediately found a big improvement for White: <18.Kg1!> f2+ 19.Kg2 Rh2+ 20. Kxh2 f1=Q and now <21.Nd2!>. In order to defend the position, White needs to keep moves like Qh8, Qg8, Qf8 in reserve, and so must refrain from the "obvious" Qxb7+. After <21.Nd2>, Stockfish reckons that best play is a draw by perpetual check....although it is possible that there might be a win for Black, but after a very long series of checks that takes the games over the computer's horizon. |
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| Apr-05-14 | | offramp: Two fictional bald men fighting over a non-existent comb. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 13...Qxh3+