Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Team White vs Team Black
"Battle of the Brains II" (game of the day Oct-21-2008)
Battle of the Brains (2008),, rd 2, Apr-13
French Defense: Winawer. Poisoned Pawn Variation General (C18)  ·  1/2-1/2



Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 11 more Team White/Team Black games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can learn a lot about this site (and chess in general) by reading the Chessgames Help Page. If you need help with premium features, please see the Premium Membership Help Page.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.


Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 461 OF 461 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-08-08  WiTeBoi: <a4!>
Dec-28-08  WhiteRook48: I bet Technical Draw would love this game because it ends in a draw.
Jan-10-09  The Chess Express: Well, I hope everybody has had a great new year. I have some time now to look over this game more thoroughly, so with the help of Fritz 8 here goes.

<ronpaz1: I looked briefly on yours, and other White team members, analysis on 22.Rc1 option. it seems that most of them concentrated at 22...Bd7 replay. but the Black team intends to answer 22...Nf7 on both 22.Ra2 or 22.Rc1.>

I don’t think 22...Nf7 would have solved black’s problems. For example 22. Rc1 Nf7 23. Nf2 (g4!?) gives us this.

click for larger view

From here Fritz likes 23...Qd8. If we follow this line we get

24. Ng4 Qe7 25. Ne5 Nxe5 (probably best) 26. fxe5 Rf8 27. Be2!? Rgf7 28. g4 Nh4 29. Rxf7 Rxf7

click for larger view

After 30. Bxh6 white is up a ♙.

Black might also try 23...h5 keeping the ♘ out of g4. After 24. Nh3 Qd8 25. g3 we get this.

click for larger view

From here it looks to me like white is better. White will play Ng5 … Rf2 … Re2 etc. If black responds with Nxg5 then fxg5 brings white’s dark ♗ to life. Black’s weak dark squares should prove useful.

Fritz’s likes 25...b5 26. Ng5 a5 27. Rf2 Qd7 28. Bg2 and we maintain our edge.

click for larger view

In all of these positions white’s ♖ is better on c1 than a2.

Jan-10-09  The Chess Express: <zanshin> What does Rybka 3 say about these possibilities?
Jan-11-09  The Chess Express: Fritz gives <20. g4> Nd6 21. Bg2 Nc6 22. Qe1 Rge7 23. a4 h6 24. Nf3 h5 25. h3 hxg4 26. hxg4 Ne4 27. Ne5 Nxd2 28. Qxd2 Rg7 29. g5 Nxe5 30. fxe5 Rf8 31. Rxf8+ Kxf8 32. Rf1+ Kg8 33. Qf4 Qd8 34. a5 Rh7 35. Qf6 Qxf6 36. gxf6 (0.83) 19-ply

click for larger view

Jan-12-09  zanshin: <TCE: Here's a quick look - After 22.Rc1 Nf7 23.Nf2>

click for larger view

Rybka 3 top line:

[+0.06] d=19 23...h5 24.g3 Bc6 25.Ra1 b6 26.Nh3 N5d6 27.Qe2 Qa4 28.Bc1 h4 29.gxh4 Nf5 30.Qf2 (0:07.57) 38780kN

Jan-12-09  zanshin: <TCE: After 22.Rc1 Nf7 23.Nf2 24.Nh3 Qd8 25.g3>

click for larger view

[+0.11] d=19 25...Qe7 26.Qe2 b6 27.Rfe1 Qd7 28.Qd1 N5d6 29.Rb1 (0:17.33) 81227kN

Jan-12-09  zanshin: <TCE: After 23...Qd8. 24.Ng4 Qe7 25.Ne5 Nxe5 26.fxe5 Rf8 27.Be2!? Rgf7 28.g4 Nh4 29.Rxf7 Rxf7>

click for larger view

[+0.33] d=21 30.Bxh6 Nf3 31.Bxf3 Rxf3 32.Kg2 Rf7 33.h4 Rh7 34.Bg5 Qxa3 35.Qd2 Be8 36.Rf1 Rf7 37.Bf6 Qf8 (0:18.27) 116362kN

Jan-12-09  The Chess Express: <zanshin> Thanks, I was hoping Rybka would give us a line that did not involve Ra1 … at least not right away. I like the idea of leaving the a ♙ undefended for awhile. Otherwise there is not much difference between Ra2/Ra1 and Rc1/Ra1.
Jan-12-09  The Chess Express: <zanshin> How about 20. g4 ?
Jan-12-09  zanshin: <The Chess Express: How about 20. g4 ?>

<TCE> I'll run this for you tonight. Right now, my quad is busy trying to beat you in the Challenge ;-)

Jan-12-09  The Chess Express: Heh, I had forgotten all about that. Unfortunately I’ve gotten to the point where when playing black the only reply to the Ruy Lopez that interests me anymore is 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Bc5.
Jan-12-09  zanshin: <TCE: Rybka 3 best line after 20.g4>

click for larger view

[+0.00] d=22 20...Nd6 21.Bg2 N8f7 22.Qe2 Qa4 23.Be1 Nb5 24.Nf3 Rf8 25.Ra2 Nbd6 26.Ne5 Nxe5 27.Qxe5 Nf7 28.Qe2 Nd6 (1:05.57) 172647kN

Jan-12-09  The Chess Express: Thanks.
Feb-07-09  WhiteRook48: great endgame
Feb-08-09  WhiteRook48: Good thing it doesn't say
"Dancing ♖"
THAT would be really annoying
Feb-18-09  WhiteRook48: I must be really dumb to wonder why White didn't play 48. Kxh4
Premium Chessgames Member
  Gypsy: <WhiteRook48: I must be really dumb to wonder why White didn't play 48. Kxh4>

The analysis of both teams regarding that can be found about here: Team White vs Team Black, 2008

I think we considered that to be a win or nearly a win for black. Here are some concrete lines (few typos fixed):

Oct-16-08 Premium Chessgames Member Gypsy: team black

48.Kxh4 Rxg2 49.h3 Rxc2 50.Rf3 Rg2 51.Re3 Kb5 52.Rg3 Rxg3 53.Kxg3 e5 54.<h4> exd4 55.Kf2 dxc3 56.Ke1... (Black to play)

click for larger view

This is what worried me. But it should be winning for Black, should it not?


(1) 57.h5 Kb3 58.h6 c2 59.Kd2 Kb2 ... Black wins

(2) 57.Kd1 Kb3 58.Kc1 d4 59.h5 c2 60.h6 c3 61.h7 d3 62.h8Q d2#

click for larger view

A checkmate!

I guess I must have lost a tempo somewhere while analysing earlier, maybe by mixing the two variations and forgetting the h-pawn up the ahead.

Feb-20-09  WhiteRook48: Oh, now I see. thanks <Gypsy>
Feb-24-09  WhiteRook48: This proves that 1...e6 is a good opening choice.
Apr-26-09  Red October: I feel very proud about how deep our Team's analysis went
Sep-07-09  WhiteRook48: the winawer does not really work
Oct-12-09  The Chess Express: <WhiteRook48: This proves that 1...e6 is a good opening choice. the winawer does not really work>

Somehow this seems strangely contradicting. Is it an attempt at humor?

Apr-25-20  Open Defence: this is still fun to analyse


The Chess Express: 47. Rf7 a5 48. Kf4 Rg8 49. g4 hxg3 50. hxg3 Kb5 51. Rxb7+ (probably best) Ka4 52. g4 Kxa3 53. g5 a4 54. Kg4 Ka2 55. Kh5 Rh8+ 56. Kg4 Rh2 57. g6 Rxc2 58. g7 Rg2+ 59. Kh5 a3 60. Kh6 Ka1 61. Kh7 Rb2! 62. g=Q Rxb7+

click for larger view

This is still at least . Maybe we can draw this, but <47. Rf1> would be a lot less painful.>

57...Rg2+ instead of the immediate 57...Rxc2 should create problems for White 58.Kh5 Rxc2

click for larger view

Apr-25-20  Open Defence: <
acirce: As for moves we don't expect -- I know it has been suggested a few times, but I wonder why there is so little focus on 21..Ba4. Not saying it's the best, but it seems like a French-typical and pretty logical move. Of course, it could also come later, as it does in several of the considered lines, but why couldn't it come now?>
and we did play 21...Ba4 XD
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 461)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 461 OF 461 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
8.Bd3 f5 9.exf6 Rxf6 10.Bg5 Rf7 11.Qh5 g6 12.Qd1 Nbc6 13.Nf3 Qa
from 97_C18/19_Positional Variation 7.Qg4 0-0 | other by whiteshark
(ChessGames Challenge 2008)
from ThePawnOTron2's favorite games by ThePawnOTron2
Bob2 game
from I was there! by zanshin
Game of the day 3
by vikinx
famous game
by iywo
October 21: Battle of the Brains II
from Game of the Day 2008 by Phony Benoni
Battle of the Brains II
from Some of my Favorite Games by scolley
Good correspondence games
by TheDestruktor
Most kibitzed team game on this site
from Chessgames Games by Penguincw
Every dog has his day.
from 96b_The Unbearable Lightness of rook endgames 2 by whiteshark
FR Winawer Poisoned Pawn (C18) 1/2-1/2 442 pages of kibitzing
from Freshly Made Pipin' Hot Winawers on a Bun by fredthebear

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC