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Bart F Gibbons vs Carsten Hansen
"Monkey Business" (game of the day Jan-17-2008)
USA vs. Denmark Match (1988), Correspondence, Jul-28
Sicilian Defense: Chekhover Variation (B53)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-18-08  ICCM Bart Gibbons: Hi everybody!
This is Bart, and this is also the first time I've logged in. I must say I'm amazed at how many comments there were; good ones too.

I just looked at my notes to the game, and I must confess that 22 Qf5 is not as convincing as I thought originally. My notes give 22.. Kd8 23 Rd5+ Kc7 24 c3!, but at first glance it does look like 24.. Qa3 is unclear.

I will look at it some more, and respond again.

Thanks again for all your notes!

Bart Gibbons
Joplin, Missouri

Jan-18-08  UdayanOwen: UdayanOwen: Obviously 22.Qxd5, cutting off the king, and THEN coming back to mate on f7 is desirable if it works... But I think I've found the antidote.

After 22.Qxd5, white threatens both 23.Qxh5+ Kf8 24.Qf7#, and 23.Qd7+ Kf8 24.Qd8+ Rxd8 25.Rxd8#.

White can defend both with 22...Qb5, when now either 23.Qe4 or 23.Qg2 (threatening to mate in 2) black plays 23...Kf8, in order to meet 24.Qg6 with 24...Qe8, defending.

So I think that after analyzing the game to death, if the 2400 Gibbons wants to give 22.Qf5 a double !!, I'd say the argument is as follows:

Either way white needs three moves to get control of the fully opened d-file and get the queen to g6 threatening mate. Black needs three moves to play Qb5, Kf8, and meet white's Qg6 with Qe8. 22.Qxd5 seems best as it cuts off the king but black has the tempo he needs to defend.

On the other hand, the clever 22.Qf5!! keeps the eye on g6, so now there are still only two moves required to get control of the d-file and get the queen to g6. That means black has must in some order play Kf8, Qb5 and Qe8 to defend, without wasting a single tempi.

He can't play 22...Kf8 first, because 23.Qg6 will checkmate (another advantage of maintaining control of g6 with 22.Qf5!!). But, that means he has to play 23...Qb5, but now white gets to use one of his tempi in a way that furthers his plan, 24.Rxd5, whilst forcing black to LOSE a tempi, since 24...Qe8 is not possible. So he has to give up the queen, since saving it allows 25.Qg6+ and mate.

So if as I suspect after 22.Qf5 Kd8 there is a complex forced mate or material win for white, then I think all factors considered, 22.Qf5!! definitely deserves the double exclam. To sacrifice the knight, see that the natural 22.Qxd5 doesn't work, and make the whole concept to mate on f7 work with the clever finesse 22.Qf5!!, and finally know that if he tries to run to the queenside you've got a complex forced win... I'd say that's a pretty grand conception.

The reason I've been so keen to defend Gibbons against hasty criticism is that I sensed there was something really deep and clever about what he has done in this game.

Now all we need is to see what Fritz says about the position after 22...Kd8 to confirm my argument for the brilliance of white's play.

Jan-18-08  UdayanOwen: Interesting! Whilst constructing my previous post, Gibbons has come on saying he is in fact not certain about the win after 22.Kd8. However, I'm still going to see what Fritz says. In any case, according to my previous argument, I think 22.Qf5 is still the right move, and if theoretically white loses after 22...Kd8 then that is a problem with 21.Nxd5, not 22.Qf5.

Calculable win or not after 22...Kd8, the king is simply permanently open over there on the queenside, and white can soon manever all 3 heavy pieces into play there. He has the outpost for a rook on d7, can get the other rook in to the d-file and lift it, and the queen jink around making all kinds of threats on the open diagonals, whilst supporting rook movements further into the queenside, or being supported by the rooks control of ranks on the queenside. Even the white queenside pawns can help out. I don't know for sure, but maybe you can play 21.Nxd5 cxd5 22.Qf5 as a positional sacrifice, even if you aren't certain of a complex forced win after 22...Kd8.

Jan-18-08  ICCM Bart Gibbons: It's Bart here again...

Ok, I'm still liking White here. After 22 Qf5, ..d4 was suggested. I think White can play 23 c3, and if ..Qc3 24 Rd3 looks pretty etrong. White will double rooks on the d-file.

The main line, then, is 22 Qf5 Kd8 23 Rd5+ Kc7. Now, instead of 24 c3 (which gives Black the chance of a R sac on b3), how about simply 24 Ra5. White has 3 pawns for the piece, and Black still has to prove he can untangle himself. I wouldn't say it's a clear win, but it seems White can mass in the center without much hindrance.

Jan-18-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <ICCM Bart Gibbons> <It's Bart here again...

Ok, I'm still liking White here. After 22 Qf5, ..d4 was suggested. I think White can play 23 c3, and if ..Qc3 24 Rd3 looks pretty etrong. White will double rooks on the d-file.

The main line, then, is 22 Qf5 Kd8 23 Rd5+ Kc7. Now, instead of 24 c3 (which gives Black the chance of a R sac on b3), how about simply 24 Ra5. White has 3 pawns for the piece, and Black still has to prove he can untangle himself. I wouldn't say it's a clear win, but it seems White can mass in the center without much hindrance.>

Thanks for the feedback so far. We appreciate it.

Have you considered the ramifications of 24...Rbg8? It could cause white a lot of headaches.


click for larger view

White cannot move his rook from the back rank because of the forced mate threat of Qe1. If he plays 25 Rd1 black replies 25... Rg5.

White probably has to play 25 Qc5+ to force the queen exchange.

Jan-18-08  eaglewing: I'm thinking about: 22. Qf5 Kd8 23. Rd5+ Kc7 24. a3 Qa3 25. Qd3 (protects b3 and threats Qc4) Qb4 26. Rgd1. Still to be analyzed.
Jan-18-08  UdayanOwen: It's good that you point out the darksquare theme with queen and bishop <Jimfromprovidence>, I hadn't really considered that; so my suggestion of playing the g-rook to d1 and lifting it may not be so easy. I had in mind something like 22...Kd8 23.Rxd5+ Kc7 24.Rd7+ Kb6 25.Rd1. Maybe instead white can play 25.a4, which will give white options to leave the back rank in many variations (whilst the control of b5 with its potential as an outpost is also useful).

Now let's say black activates with 25...Rhg8 26.Rd1 Rg5 27.Qf3.

I have to concede there are so many possibilities that it really doesn't seem to be a situation where a win can be calculated. I think white is OK here though, with 2 pawns for the piece and a sustained initiative against the king and the structural pawn weaknesses. I think both sides have maybe about equal winning chances.

I also think white should be OK in the line given by Bart and extended by Jim (23.Rxd5+ Kc7 24.Rxa5 Rbg8), after 25.Qc5+ Qxc5 26.Rxc5+ Kd6 27.Rxg8 Rxg8 28.Rxh5. After the white e pawn falls he will have 3 pawns for the piece, and the three connected passers are probably a bit better than the bishop. Meanwhile having passed pawns on each wing probably strengthens the argument that white is better here.

I'll get around to getting Fritz on to this and post some more stuff soon...

Just to note I might have sounded a bit huffy earlier with people who were criticizing Gibbons but didn't mean to offend anyone... I just got a bit peeved because I thought his play was really creative and the tone of some of the discussion was like, 'what a loser, he didn't even consider that the king could run to the queenside', and I just thought, hang on a sec, I'm sure this guy thought long and hard about this plan and he's a better chessplayer than us so lets not be so sure of ourselves in this extremely complex situation....

Jan-18-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <eaglewing> <I'm thinking about: 22. Qf5 Kd8 23. Rd5+ Kc7 24. a3 Qa3 25. Qd3 (protects b3 and threats Qc4) Qb4 26. Rgd1. Still to be analyzed.>

That’s a heck of a continuation. If black plays 26…Rb7, can you finish it off?


click for larger view

Jan-18-08  eaglewing: <JimfromProvidence: 26. ... Rb7> I'm not sure. Qa6 will be dangerous. However, 26. ... Rb6 will hold (or at least I gave up on this line). At the moment I'm at:

22. Qf5 Kd8 23. a3 Qxa3 24. Qd5+ Kc7 25. Rg3 Kb6 (Qb4 Rd4) 26. b4 Qa4 and now unsure. Rb3 and Rd4 at first glance. Happy weekend!

Jan-18-08  ICCM Bart Gibbons: You're right; 24 Ra5 Rbg8 is a strong defense for Black.

OK, now I have a new suggestion, and this time I think it'll hold up. It dawned on me that 24 c4 (instead of Ra5 or c3) controls both the b5 and d5 squares (I want to give 24 c4 an exclamation mark; but every move I've suggested so far has been met with a good response).

24 c4 also emphasizes the use of the Queen on the fifth rank, which is why I liked 22 Qf5 in the first place. Ok, so after 24 c4, White is threatening 25 Rc5+, which would win outright ( If the Black king goes to the b file, then Rb5+ wins the queen). Note Black can't play 24..Qc4?, as 25 Rc5+ wins the queen.

The best defense I've seen so far is 24..Rb6, which allows Black to go to the b file without losing the queen. I think White has 3 strong moves against ..24 Rb6;

1) 25 Rgd1
2) 25 Ra5
3) 25 c5 !?, the sharpest. A neat line would be 25..Rb5 26 Rd7+ Kb8 27 Qh7! Better for Black is 26..Kc8, which is why I think White's best may be 26 Rgd1 first.

In all these lines, the pawn on c4 makes a huge difference, as White's attacking chances do not diminish.

Ok, how about it? How does 24 c4 look?

Jan-18-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <ICCM Bart Gibbons> <Ok, how about it? How does 24 c4 look?>

I don’t know if it’s that good for white, aggressively advancing the c pawn. If, after 24…Rb6 25 c5, I think black should play 25…Rc6.


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I'm not sure how white proceeds.

I have to say I'm a big fan of 22 Qxd5 for white.

Jan-19-08  UdayanOwen: <Jimfromprovidence: I have to say I'm a big fan of 22 Qxd5 for white.>

But how do you proceed against 22...Qb5, ?

Jan-19-08  ICCM Bart Gibbons: If 25..Rc6, I think 26 Rgd1 still gives White a hold on the position.

Since you're a fan of 22 Qd5, I gave that a look (for the 1st time really) too. An earlier post gives 22..Qb5 23 Qe4 Kf8, as an antidote, since Black can reply to 24 Qg6 with ..Qe8.

(I wish I knew how to insert a diagram here; I'm brand new.)

It seems to me White can play 24 Rd7 here, threatening 25 Qg6. If ..Qb6, which hits the e-pawn, then 25 Rgd1 renews the main threat. So, my 1st impression is that 22 Qd5 is also good.

Jan-19-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <UdayanOwen> <But how do you proceed against 22...Qb5, ?>

23 Qg2, (threatening Qg6+ and mate in two). 23...Kf8 24 Rd5 Qe8 25 Rxa5 and white's in pretty good shape.


click for larger view

Jan-19-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <ICCM Bart Gibbons> <If 25..Rc6, I think 26 Rgd1 still gives White a hold on the position.>

I then like 26… Kb8 for black.


click for larger view

Again, I prefer 22 Qxd5 because it really seems to cramp black's position.

There’s two ways to create the diagrams. The method is called Forsyth-Edwards Notation, or FEN. On the CG home page, there’s a link to a FEN help page, which instructs you how to construct the code.

You can do this automatically as well. You first have to login to Chess Games, then go to the game you are analyzing. Go up to the chessboard. At the first move you want to change from the text position you use your mouse to click on that move in the chess notation. Then you go to the chessboard and manipulate the pieces move-by-move into the desired position. When you’ve finished, you right-click the mouse. A menu box appears. You click on Copy Position and paste it into the comment box. It automatically creates the FEN code for you.

When you click on the kibitz button, the diagram appears.

Jan-20-08  UdayanOwen: Yeah you're right Jim this is pretty decent, with three pawns, positional advantages, and pressure with black looking pretty unco-ordinated.... Just about impossible to lose I'd think, so 22.Qxd5 does seem less risky than 22.Qf5.

But it could arguably be stylistic... Maybe some people are happy to play 22.Qf5 as a positional sacrifice, when the permanently open king might give greater winning chances than 22.Qxd5 (in exchange for a higher risk).

Jan-21-08  eaglewing: Regarding my ideas with 22. Qf5 Kd8 23. a3 Qxa3 I would like to note that I found sufficient defenses in these positions. It seems to me, 22. Qf5 Kd8 is a defense, which does not allow a forced mate. If the pawns may be stronger than the bishop, one could play 22. Qf5 Kd8 23. Qxh5 for pawn advantage, I do not know.
Jan-21-08  eaglewing: <Jimfromprovidence: 22. Qxd5 Qb5 23. Qg2 Kf8 24. Rd5 Qe8 25. Rxa5 and white's in pretty good shape.> While 23. Qe4 forces Kf8, I think 23. Qg2 does not, a more active Queen's dance could be the defense.

22. Qxd5 Qb5 23. Qg2 Qf5 24. Qc6+ Kf8 25. Qb7/c7 Re8 26. Rd8 Qxe6 [or 24. Rd5 Qg4 (or directly Qxe6?) Qf1 (Exchange?!) Qe4 (controls c4; or Qxe6) Rxh5 Qxe6]

<Jimfromprovidence + ICCM Bart Gibbons: How does 24 c4 look? SNIP: After 24…Rb6 25 c5, I think black should play 25…Rc6.> I think, I would prefer Rb5 still looking at b3, one pawn has moved, so the motive for Rxb3+ ab Qxb3+ and checking from a3/b3 is available.

22. Qf5 Kd8 23. Rd5+ Kc7 24. c4 Rb6 25. c5 Rb5 26. Rgd1 Qc3 already creates the problem for White.

Jan-21-08
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <Jimfromprovidence: 22. Qxd5 Qb5 23. Qg2 Kf8 24. Rd5 Qe8 25. Rxa5 and white's in pretty good shape.> <While 23. Qe4 forces Kf8, I think 23. Qg2 does not, a more active Queen's dance could be the defense. 22. Qxd5 Qb5 23. Qg2 Qf5 24. Qc6+ Kf8 25. Qb7/c7 Re8 26. Rd8 Qxe6 [or 24. Rd5 Qg4 (or directly Qxe6?) Qf1 (Exchange?!) Qe4 (controls c4; or Qxe6) Rxh5 Qxe6]>

Doesn't 25 Qb6! win a rook for white?

<Jimfromprovidence + ICCM Bart Gibbons: How does 24 c4 look? SNIP: After 24…Rb6 25 c5, I think black should play 25…Rc6. I think, I would prefer Rb5 still looking at b3, one pawn has moved, so the motive for Rxb3+ ab Qxb3+ and checking from a3/b3 is available.

22. Qf5 Kd8 23. Rd5+ Kc7 24. c4 Rb6 25. c5 Rb5 26. Rgd1 Qc3 already creates the problem for White.>

Black should play 26...a4, not Qc3.

Jan-21-08  patzer2: Maybe 22. Qf5!! isn't so speculative afterall.

After 22. Qf5!! Kd8 23. c3! Qa3 24. Qxd5+ Kc7 25. Qd7+ Kb6 26. Rd5 Ka6 27. Qc6+ Rb6 28. Qc4+ Ka7 29. Rd7+ Rb7 30. Rgd1 Rhb8 31. f4 Bxf4 32. Qxf4 Qc5 33. Kb2 Rc8 34. Qf3 Rxd7 35. Rxd7+ Rc7 36. Rxc7+ Qxc7 37. Qxh5 (+4.56 @ 15 depth, Fritz 8), White appears to be clearly winning.

Jan-21-08  patzer2: If 22. Qf5!! is indeed decisive, then 21. Nxd5!!, to set it up, is a deep positional sacrifice which initiates a winning combination.
Jan-22-08  eaglewing: <Jimfromprovidence: 22. Qxd5 Qb5 23. Qg2 Qf5 24. Qc6+ Kf8: Doesn't 25 Qb6! win a rook for white?> You are right.

<patzer2: 22. Qf5!! Kd8 23. c3! Qa3 24. Qxd5+ Kc7 25. Qd7+ Kb6 26. Rd5 ...> Yes, that is the move order for the intrusion. I tested c3 with Rxd5 and a3 with both xd5 options, but this one I missed should be the one we sought, but it still does not mate due to not fully controlling the squares b5/c5/c6.

I'm sure it is forced until move 29, so what does your Fritz give for the defense 29. Rd7+ Ka8? And how about 31. f4 a4 32. b4 Bxf4 32. Qxf4 Qxc3?

Feb-18-08  JohnBoy: Bart: I see above that you are still playing. Nice game. Do you remember John Velling from your old SoCal days? I think I crashed at your place during the American Open (or maybe the SW Open) a couple of times. We played a lot of good blitz 30 years ago.

John

May-15-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  erniecohen: As the one who stirred up all this trouble by complaining about 22. ♕f5, I retract my hasty criticism. Pardon my not coming back for three years to say so. My apologies to Bart - well played!
Dec-03-20  ICCM Bart Gibbons: Hi folks. Back in 2008 when most of the comments on this game of mine were made, I did not have a chess computer. I did not buy any software until 2020, when I got Fritz 17. Happily, Fritz 17 gives 22 Qf5 as the best move (+4.72 after 22...Kd8 23 c3). Belatedly, I want to thank those of you that did use a computer in 2008 to confirm the strength of 22 Qf5, and for the supportive comments. Fritz 17 has found flaws in some of my other postal wins; it is a great tool.
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