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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Mar-22-17
 | | Dionysius1: How annoying. I saw 28 Ncb5 but thought it just gave black too much material for his rook. |
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| Mar-22-17 | | gofer: OMG! I looked at f5, discarded it and looked at O-O (before playing f5) and discarded it.
I came to the conclusion that black's position was so snarled up that f5 was winning and
I didn't want to open up black's position before playing f5, so that one extra preparation
move would be good, Rf1 or O-O (which I thought was probably legal given the position). But I realised this was way too complex for a <Wednesday>!!!! So I had to see what was
expected.
<Doh!>
~~~
<<YouRang:> I know, <28.Nb5> is better...> I think you missed out the word <infinitely> before "better". 28 Ncb5 ...
28 ... Qb8 29 Qxd8# 
28 ... cxb5 29 Nxb5 Qc6/Qb8 (any other move 30 Nxc7 ) 30 Qxd8+ Kf7 31 Nd6+ Qxd6 32 cxd6 28 ... any other move 29 Nxc7
The queen trap was such a nice move that I am going to be pissed off all day for missing it. Roll on <Thursday>... |
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| Mar-22-17 | | stacase: Deflect Black's Queen grab the Rook and say check. You only have to sac one Knight to do it. |
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| Mar-22-17 | | Abdel Irada: ∞
<<+> When The Knights Go Marching In <+>> I was briefly diverted by the queen sac on g6, but Black can defend against that and win, so I took another look around and noted the weakness of the rook on d8: If only the queen could be driven from the a5-d8 diagonal, we could take it with check. This led to:
<<+> 28. Ncb5! ... > Also playable is 28. Ndb5; either way, the same end is achieved. <<+> 28. ...cxb5
29. Nxb5, Nde5! >
This is Black's only hope, but it isn't much: If White foolishly grabs the queen, Black will play the royal fork with 30. ...Nf3+. <<+> 30. Qf6+, Qf7 > Necessary because there is no longer a fork on f3. <<+> 31. Qxd8+, Qe8
32. Qxe8+, Kxe8
33. Nc7+, Kd8
34. Nxa8 >
∞ |
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| Mar-22-17 | | saturn2: The move 10 ..Nd7 I dont like at all.
From move 7 to 10 black should have played ..dxc4 Bxc4 Nd5. He did not and got a hampered position. |
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| Mar-22-17 | | zb2cr: White wins big material by 28. Ncb5, cxb5; 29. Nxb5, Qb8; 30. Qxd8+, Kf7; 31. Nd6+, Qxd6; 32. cxd6 Black looks lost. |
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| Mar-22-17 | | Carlos0012358: 28.f5 is the obvious one
28.Ndb5 is the subtle and deadly one |
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| Mar-22-17 | | Carlos0012358: Playing it out
28.Nbd5 cxb5
29.Nxb5 Nde5
30.Qf6+ Qf7
31.Qxd8 Qe8
32.Qxe8 Kxe8
33.Nc7+ Kd8
34Nxa8...
And black is down two rooks |
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Mar-22-17
 | | Willber G: I went for 28.f5 but couldn't see a win for white after 28...Nb8 which looks awkward but frees up blacks effective defenders. I didn't even consider 28.Nb5 assuming I'd missed something in my original line. |
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| Mar-22-17 | | stst: Two possible thrusts: f5, QxN
QxN has momentum, but is a jerk, as Black got a R to guard the back rank ==> promotion on h is dimmed.
On the other hand, 28.f5 delivers great discomfort to Black, e.g.:
(A).....exf
29.Qxf5 (i) Ke7==>Qf7#
(ii)Kg8/g7 ===> Qf7+, and 30.Kh8 Qg7#
(B).....Ng moves ===> Qg7#
(C).....other move ===> fxN, Black devastating. |
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| Mar-22-17 | | stst: At first, Ndb5 looks no harm, but a second look tells the follow-up cxN, NxP is intended to harass the Black Q, then it's clear.
When energy is back, should have more patience, not to just think of other lines, but think from CG's perspective, that Wednesday should not yield too obvious lines. More subtle lines ought to be hiding somewhere!! |
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Mar-22-17
 | | Jimfromprovidence: Side puzzle.
If the puzzle had started one move earlier, figure out if 27 Nb5 works. 
click for larger view |
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| Mar-22-17 | | YouRang: <gofer><<<YouRang:> I know, <28.Nb5> is better...> I think you missed out the word <infinitely> before "better".> I reserve <"infinitely better"> for when I compare one move that delivers checkmate with another move that surrenders checkmate. In this case, we are comparing two moves that are both winning, but one wins considerably faster. To put it in terms of low-ply engine evals, one move is about +2, and the other is about +7. Not quite infinite IMO. ;-) |
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| Mar-22-17 | | YouRang: <Carlos0012358: Playing it out > ... <And black is down two rooks> Well, black is down two *exchanges*.
At the end of the given line, white has 2R+P in exchange for N+B. Still crushing yes, but not *as* crushing as having 2R for free. :-) |
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| Mar-22-17 | | YouRang: <Jimfromprovidence: Side puzzle.
If the puzzle had started one move earlier, figure out if 27 Nb5 works.> Very interesting side puzzle. :-) |
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| Mar-22-17 | | Calli: Think I would have played 23...Rxd6, getting rid if the "rusty nail". Black's position would still not be good and he'd be down material with a pawn for the exchange, but the position is semi-blocked and White would have to figure out how to win. |
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| Mar-22-17 | | swclark25: I also went with 28)f5 and I'm still working on seeing the advantages of 28)Ncb5 |
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Mar-22-17
 | | patzer2: The computers indicate the losing move was 23...Nd7? allowing 24. Qh4 (+2.23 @ 22 depth, Deep Fritz 15) Intead, 23...Rxd6 24. cxd6 Qxd6  (+0.78 @ 21 depth, Deep Fritz 15) trades a Rook for a Knight and a pawn and more active counter-play. Black's problems appear to start with the awkward anti-developing move 9...Nf8?! allowing 10. Bd3 . Instead, I prefer 9...b6 = with the idea of activating the light square Bishop as in Black's win in A L'Ami vs S Ter-Sahakyan, 2012. |
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| Mar-22-17 | | BxChess: On the 28. f5 line, Rybka gives the main line as
28 f5 N(d)e5
29 Qf6+ Kg8
30 fxg6 Nxg6
31 Nf7 Qxf7
32 Qxd8+ Qf8
33 Qxf8+ Kxf8
with an advantage of 1.6 to white |
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| Mar-22-17 | | Geronimo: Beautiful puzzle. Looked at the text move and f5, and am heartened to know both are winning. Thanks cg.com, this is a perfectly instructive puzzle. |
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Mar-22-17
| | doubledrooks: 28.Ncb5 bc 29.Nxb5 works for me. |
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| Mar-22-17 | | morfishine: Straightforward, point-blank finish
***** |
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| Mar-22-17 | | ChessHigherCat: Did anybody else notice how black had no counterplay at all during the whole game? White never castled and it didn't matter at all because black was totally paralyzed on its own back ranks. Remind me never to play the "Barmen variation" |
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| Mar-22-17 | | Abdel Irada: ∞
<Carlos0012358: 28.f5 is the obvious one
28.Ndb5 is the subtle and deadly one>
28. Ncxb5/Ndxb5 is about as subtle as a piledriver. ∞ |
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| Mar-23-17 | | ChessHigherCat: Instead of the "Barmen Variation", it should be called the "Erbarmen" (German for "to have mercy upon") Variation because black piously refrains from fighting back against his aggressor, trusting in the powers of divine intervention. |
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sac: 27.Bxg6