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Igor Yagupov vs Alexander Rustemov
Moscow3 (1995), Moscow RUS
Formation: King's Indian Attack (A07)  ·  1-0



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find similar games 1 more Yagupov/A Rustemov game
sac: 17.Rxf6 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-07-20  Jamboree: "agb2002:

26.? is an impossible puzzle even if the players spent the first moves moving the knights forth and back: the move number would be odd."

You've actually raised a very interesting question:

What if the knights switched sides -- such that on the 26th move, the knight at b1 is actually the king's knight, and the knight at g1 is the queen's knight, and they had together had spent the whole game maneuvering around to end up in each other starting squares? If they had done this, could it even be technically possible for this to be the position with white to move on an EVEN move, such as move 26 (or any other even-numbered move)?

Also note: while the knights are out moving around, the rooks would both be free to move back and forth from a1 to b1 and from h1 to g1 -- but they also therefore could not lose a tempo either, since to restore the starting position each rook necessarily would have to make an even number of moves to get back to rook one.

Furthermore, even if each individual knight would necessarily "lose a tempo" to get to a square of the opposite color, since BOTH knights must do the same dance, the second knight would also always lose a tempo as well, so as a group of two, the knights can NOT lose a tempo.

Thus, on general principle, it would seem that the answer is "No" -- even considering the possibility of switching knights, and the possibility of shuffling the rooks, under no circumstance could the starting position of a chess game ever be white to play an even-numbered move!

Pretty amazing, actually.

Or am I missing something?

Premium Chessgames Member
  Messiah: <Jamboree: OK, I haven't looked at the solution yet, but considering the starting position of the problem, I analyzed that 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.Ngf3 c5 5.g3 Nc6 6.Bg2 Be7 7.O-O b6 8.Re1 Bb7 9.c3 Qc7 10.e5 Nd7 11.Nf1 Ncxe5 12.Nxe5 Nxe5 13.Bf4 Bd6 14.Bxe5 Bxe5 15.Qh5 Bf6 16.Rxe6+ Kf8 17.Rxf6 gxf6 18.Qh6+ Ke7 19.Re1+ Kd7 20.Qxf6 Qd6 21.Qxf7+ Kc8 22.Bh3+ Kb8 23.Re6 Qf8 24.Re8+ seems forced.

Did I get it right?

Pretty easy and obvious for a Friday puzzle.>

I fail to see what are the options after 1...c5, possibly your analysis is incomplete.

Very nice trolling attempt from CG, honestly, I like it!

Nov-07-20  Walter Glattke: CG means, you might find out, what move 26 would be, finding out, why black resigns, descriving the mate-in-two.
Nov-07-20  Walter Glattke: Oh, there is a slaughtery way with 24.-Bc8, really insane, that.
Nov-07-20  morfishine: More like a Sunday insane puzzle
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: I went with 1. d4.
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: CG.C kibitzers, you've risen to the occasion in magnificent style. I've never laughed so much at 5 AM on a Saturday morning.
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: As for the answer, I'll appeal to <Random Visitor> or <AylerKupp> to do a 51 ply run.
Nov-07-20  saturn2: Tarrasch has alteady analyzed this puzzle position deeply and given d4 as the solution.
Nov-07-20  Swedish Logician: I considered the possibility that "26" was a typo for "16" , but that hardly made sense either, since, by a long shot, the move 16. Rxe6 was not Very Difficult to find, and hence not of the Saturday puzzle kind.
Nov-07-20  thegoodanarchist: First thing I did was look at the date. And it's NOT April 1st!
Nov-07-20  Prosperus: It should be 16. ? and everything works.
Nov-07-20  morfishine: <Prosperus: It should be 16. ? and everything works>

I doubt it, <16.Rxe6+> is too obvious and easy for a Saturday puzzle

Nov-07-20  Vermit: I wonder what tomorrow's insane puzzle will be. This only merits 4.5 stars.
Premium Chessgames Member
  catlover: Was it GM Santassiere who used to say that there was a forced win for white in the Vienna Opening?
Nov-07-20  Diana Fernanda: how well chrsowen has returned! .... who knows what happens in a banana country that the two candidates are proclaimed winners? Bye.
Nov-07-20  goodevans: <morfishine: [...] <16.Rxe6+> is too obvious and easy for a Saturday puzzle>

True, but <17.Rxf6> isn't exactly difficult to find either so it's a mystery where this puzzle was supposed to start.

Nov-07-20  Mfrankpsyd: The actual conclusion of this game is quite lovely.
Nov-07-20  awfulhangover: 17.Rxf6 maybe worth a puzzle
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: <Jambo: Pretty easy and obvious for a Friday puzzle.>

Even easier for a Saturday...

Nov-07-20  Petrossian: 24.Re8+ QxR 25.Qf4+ Qd6 26.QxQ++
Nov-07-20  goodevans: <awfulhangover: 17.Rxf6 maybe worth a puzzle>

What alternatives to white's 17th move are worth considering?

Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: <Jamboree: "agb2002:
Or am I missing something?>

You aren't.

Although both knights might not follow symmetric paths (for example, Nc3-e4-g5-h3-g1 and Nf3-e5-c4-h3-b1) the essential point is that knights move alternating square colors with steps of fixed length. Therefore, they cannot lose tempos and since there are two the maneuvers to go out and return home involve necessarily an even number of moves.

Rooks don't have room to lose tempos, so they do not count.

Nov-08-20  erichbf: Richard Reti I believe in one of his books showed the position in this problem with the caption " A complicated position" thus, in his honor the correct solution must be 1. Nf3.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <Note to Future Generations>

On Nov-07-20, the daily puzzle was to have come from this game. Due to some glitch, the starting position was used as the puzzle position. The above discussion was in response to this mistake.

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