Aug-11-07
 | | chancho: Had Sax first played 21...Nh4, Stean had 22.Qg5. (keeping an eye on g2) But after Sax's 21...Ng4! 22.fxg4 Nh4, the white g4 pawn blocks the white Queen from the defense of g2. If White now plays 23.Bf3, then 23...Nxf3+ and mate on the next move. |
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Nov-12-07
| | chancho: On 22.Qd6 Sax has 22...Rf4! obstructing the b8-h2 diagonal. (23.Qxf4 Nxf4 and mate on g2 or h2) |
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Aug-01-17
 | | fredthebear: This is game 4, p. 30 in the book Power Mates by Bruce Pandolfini. |
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| Mar-12-18 | | Retireborn: In Informator Sax criticises 16.0-0 and 18.Rae1, but there is not a lot wrong with these moves, objectively. 18...Qd7! is a nice example of what Kotov calls a creeping move. 18.Qc5 would have been OK for White, but now 19.Qc5 is a loser because the black queen gets in at h3. White had to find 19.Kh1 (only move), the difference being that if 19...f3 20.gxf3 Qh3?! 21.fxe4 Ng4? 22.Bxg4 Black does not recapture with check; 22...Qxg4 23.f4 Nh4 24.Rf2 & White wins. Of course Black can do better than 20...Qh3; Sax gives 20...exf3 21.Bxf3 Nh4 22.Bd1 Ng4 with compensation. |
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| Jul-22-20 | | landshark: I had 21...Ng4 22. Qd6 Nf4 which wins the white Q because the pawn capture 23.exf4 blocks the Q's defense of h2. Therefore 23.Qxf4 being the only move to avoid mate but loses badly because after ... RxQ, the R is still off limits due to the same mate. |
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| Jul-22-20 | | landshark: And the other poisoned capture being 22. fxg4 Nh4 and mate is unavoidable. |
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| Jul-22-20 | | agb2002: Black has a knight for a bishop and two pawns.
White threatens Qg5-g3.
This maneuver suggests 21... Ng4:
A) 22.fxg4 Nh4 and mate in three.
B) 22.Qd6 Nf4 23.Qxf4 (23.exf4 Qxh2#) 23... Rxf4 24.fxg4 Rxe4 - + [q vs B+2P]. |
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| Jul-22-20 | | agb2002: <chancho>'s 22... Rf4 (after 22.Qd6) is far better than 22... Nf4 because it forces mate in four. |
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| Jul-22-20 | | Walter Glattke: 1P with 21.-Nh4 22.Qg5 Nh5 Qg4 23.Nxf3+ Bxf3 24.Rxf3 QxQ 25.Rxh3 1P ahead for white. Barring out the Q for guarding with 21.-Ng4 first 22.Qd6 Rf4 23.Qxf4 Nxf4, and what knight will you take then? Qg2# or Qh2# |
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| Jul-22-20 | | saturn2: Supported by a knight black can mate on g2 or h2.
... 21..Nh4 is met by 22 Qg5.
Therefore first 21...Ng4 22. fxg4 (Qd6 Nf4 interrupts ) Nh4 |
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| Jul-22-20 | | stacase: Both of Black's Knights can support mate at either at Qh2# or Qg2#. 21...Ng4 forces 22.fxg4 and then 22...Nh4 supports the mate 23...Qh2# which now White can't defend against because his Pawn occupies g4 blocking the defense 24.Qg5 It all revolved around blocking White's Queen from successfully defending from g5 |
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| Jul-22-20 | | Brenin: In addition to the clever blocking move 21 ... Ng4, Black has a win with the more direct 21 ... Nxe4, e.g. 22 fxe4 Nh4 23 Qg5 (Bf3 Nxf3+ and mate on h2) Rf6, followed by Rg6 winning the Q. No mate, but enough material advantage to induce resignation. |
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| Jul-22-20 | | lost in space: What <saturn2> said. |
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| Jul-22-20 | | Brenin: A third winning move for Black, in addition to 21 ... Ng4 and 21 ... Nxe4, is 21 ... Nh4, forcing 22 Qg5. Then 22 ... Nxe4 leads to either 23 fxe4 Rf6 and Rg6, winning the Q, or 23 Qg4 when Black can choose between 23 ... Qxg4+ 24 fxg4 Nd2, or 23 ... Nxf3+ 24 Bxf3 Qxf3, each with a huge material advantage. |
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| Jul-22-20 | | TheaN: This position is not terribly difficult to solve, the key seems to be in what manner. After 21....Nh4 we have to deal with 22.Qg5 (which still looks horrible for White) and 21....Nxe4 doesn't really prevent this. Then <21....Ng4> is left. Now, 22.fxg4? and the g-file's jammed, so 22....Nh5 23.Bf3 Nxf3+ 24.Kh1 Qxh2#. Probably the key is <22.Qd6> the best is <22....Rf4!> which now forces <23.fxg4 (Qxf4 Nxf4 and mate next) Nh5 24.Qd8+ Rxd8 25.Bf3 Nxf3+ 26.Kh1 Qxh2#.> I setteld on 22....Nf4?! which 'just' wins the queen for knight after 23.Qxf4 Rxf4 24.fxg4 Rxe4 -+ but White can resign regardless. Apparently, White's best is 22.Qh5, followed by the hopeless 22....Qxh5 23.fxg4 Qh3 -+, so White's busted. <agb2002: <chancho>'s 22... Rf4 (after 22.Qd6) is far better than 22... Nf4 because it forces mate in four.> I'm always in doubt as to whether I find a mate evaluation 'far better' than a numerical evaluation above 5 (Nf4 is at least -8). Objectively it's infinitely better, subjectively I'd say it's even. That huge advantage will eventually turn into a #, despite it taking longer, a human player won't continue after 22....Nf4 23.Qxf4 Rxf4 24.fxg4 Rxe4 -+. I'm not necessarily disagreeing but I question what the effective difference really is. |
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| Jul-22-20 | | mel gibson: Stockfish 11 says:
21... Ng4
(21. .. Ng4 (♘f6-g4 ♕c5-h5 ♕h3xh5 f3xg4 ♕h5-h3 ♘e4-g5
♕h3-h4 ♘g5-e4 ♖a8-e8 f2-f3 ♕h4-h3 ♔g1-h1 ♖e8xe4 f3xe4 ♕h3xe3 ♗e2-f3 ♕e3xd4
e4-e5 ♕d4xb2 e5-e6 ♕b2xa2 e6-e7 ♖f8-e8 ♗f3-e4 ♖e8xe7 ♗e4xg6 ♖e7xe1 ♖f1xe1
h7xg6 ♔h1-g1 ♕a2-d5 ♔g1-f2 ♕d5-d2+ ♖e1-e2 ♕d2-f4+ ♔f2-e1 ♕f4xg4 ♔e1-d2
♔h8-g8 ♔d2-d3 ♕g4-f3+ ♔d3-d2 g6-g5 ♔d2-e1 ♕f3-g4 ♔e1-f2 ♔g8-h7 ♔f2-e3 b7-b5
♔e3-d2 a7-a5 ♔d2-d3) +10.61/38 54)
score for White +10.61 depth 38 |
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| Jul-22-20 | | DrGridlock: <In addition to the clever blocking move 21 ... Ng4, Black has a win with the more direct 21 ... Nxe4, e.g. 22 fxe4 Nh4 23 Qg5 (Bf3 Nxf3+ and mate on h2) Rf6, followed by Rg6 winning the Q. No mate, but enough material advantage to induce resignation.> It's mate in the Ng4 line only if white takes the knight with the f-pawn. Qh5 is sufficient to prevent mate (for the time being). It's a matter of which material / positional advantage is greater - and Fat Fritz gives the edge to Ng4 over Nxe4 / Nd5 / Nh4. The key is for black to move the f6 knight - and to move it forward! |
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| Jul-22-20 | | RandomVisitor: After 15...Kh8 Lc0 like 16.g3:
click for larger viewLc0_0.26.0_384x30-t60-4300.pb:
13/48 1:01:43 2,080k 561 +0.02 <16.g3> a5 17.Be6 Qd8 18.Rd1 b5 19.Ne2 Nfd5 20.Bxd5 Nxd5 21.Qc5 Rf6 22.a3 h6 23.Rc1 Qe8 24.Nc3 Nc7 25.Ne2 Nd5 26.Nc3 Nc7 27.Ne2 Nd5 |
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| Jul-23-20 | | agb2002: <TheaN
... a human player won't continue after ...>Imagine you play one of those kids who never resigns and your lunch is taking revenge against you so your guts feel like a motocross competition. I know the experience. |
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Kibitzing
