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Veselin Topalov vs Vladimir Kramnik
Kramnik - Topalov World Championship Match (2006), Elista RUS, rd 6, Oct-02
Slav Defense: Czech. Wiesbaden Variation (D17)  ·  1/2-1/2



Annotations by Raymond Keene.      [405 more games annotated by Keene]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 22 OF 22 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Oct-02-06  Oregon104: I plugged the game into Fritz and it said, "Draws are lame."
Oct-02-06  jackpawn: clampolo>I disagree. Kasparov was clearly the best tournament player for several years after his match with Kramnik. In fact his results were so much better than Kramnik's that many people began seeing their match as a fluke. Going by his actions one has to wonder if Kramnik himself didn't feel that way.

Regardless of one's thoughts about Kramnik previous actions, I think 'toiletgate' is a black mark on chess. Topalov, if he is a true sportsman, shouldn't accept the point.

Oct-02-06  ennar: I used to be a topalov fan, but after this im not sure I like him anymore. I wish he would fire his manager, and I wonder if he will win any REAL games.

Topalov's in a very tough position right now though. If he loses, people will say he lost even though he "cheated". If he barely wins, people will say it was only because he "cheated". The only way hes in the clear is if he wins by a very large margin. Serves him right.

Oct-02-06  Peter Johnson Ng: Hi I am new to this site. I have observed this pro and con. Can we pushed forward and assessed the issues objectively.
Oct-02-06  acirce: <The only one who is playing in intolerable circumstances is Topalov . He is playing in Kramnik's home >

I'm pretty sure he isn't.

<14..Rg8 .. Black needs to lose one more tempo in order to enable the development of his dark-squared bishop. I would remark here Kramnik's strategic vision that enabled him to understand that Black can afford to play like this and stay alive. To a certain extent, the situation is similar to the Berlin Ruy Lopez (one of Kramnik's specialties, too) where Black's development looks terrible according to the classic canons, but White has problems proving an advantage.>

Thanks for that. I was reminded about Kramnik's Berlin games too. And 14..Rg8 is a wonderful move. Nice, inspiring game.

Oct-02-06  CapablancaFan: <Peter Johnson Ng> <Can we pushed forward and assessed the issues objectively.> Yeah, you are new to this site LOL!
Oct-02-06  Hesam7: <tamar: Does he try to prove he can win this, and risk wasting his remaining Whites or play something else, and concede the opening to Kramnik? (Which is probably the most practical decision in a short match.>

Maybe conceding the opening is a psychological defeat Topalov wants to avoid.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: Let's not take all this controversy too far - the match is under way again - this isn't the first nor the last controversey - let's get on with the match and let us not forget that the player's strengths have nothing to do with their personalities.

Humanum est errare.

Susan Polgar is very wise on these matters. We men seem to want get into punch ups and carry on the war...

Oct-02-06  ARTIN: Susan Polgar thinks there are two sides to this story. I never thought Topalov had a side.

Maybe she also thinks there are two sides to the Holocaust, the German and the Jewish.

Oct-03-06  Bufon: <Im just not feeling comfortable that Topalov's actions are being questioned while he couldve just refuse the match and not risk anything , something Kramnik already has done in the past years>

I agree completely with that,

1-Kramnik refused for years the rematch with Kasparov

2-He left many dobuts of the way in wich Leko was choosen.

3- And now he is a God, and Topalov the bad guy, i cant take it.

Topalov could have stayed with his title and his 2813(#1) with no problem, but he had the balls to play.

Oct-03-06  ughaibu: Bufon:
1. demonstrate at least one refusal by Kramnik of a rematch, if you cant your argument fails.

2. name at least six "doubts"

3. Topalov, on the other hand, after qualifying to play Kramnik refused to do so.

Oct-03-06  Karpova: <ughaibu> why do you even answer to this guy? his claims are so ridiculous... Especially considering who lost to Leko in the final of the qualifying (Dortmund 2002).
Oct-03-06  brankat: Ughaibu, so good to see You in as good form as ever!
Oct-03-06  mdamien: <ennar: Topalov's in a very tough position right now though. If he loses, people will say he lost even though he "cheated". If he barely wins, people will say it was only because he "cheated". The only way hes in the clear is if he wins by a very large margin. Serves him right.>

The only way I can see Topalov saving face, after losing, is to make a public statement that he "lost to the better man, on and off the chessboard."

If he wins by a very large margin, as you say, that would also restore some of his credibility -- but that doesn't seem very likely, unless Kramnik were to completely collapse from the psychological strain put on him. I'll add that a WC needs to be able to handle psychological strain, naturally.

Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: <Hesam 7> Topalov might have to choose between psychological victories and just finding any way to catch up.

This variation just looks dead to winning attempts, although I am sure Topalov's team will subject it to minute scrutiny, as all the engines give White a substantial edge, not seeing Kramnik's subtle defense.

Oct-03-06  MTal: Artin, Polgar should know about two sides, because she is smart, articulate, and unbiased. She should also know about the Holocaust, as her family happens to be Jewish. Your comparison is utterly without merit, and really offensive to Holocaust victims. Topalov=Hitler??? You call yourself a chess fan?
Oct-03-06  ARTIN: <MTal> The fact that you were the only one who replied to my post clearly indicated that you are the only who misunderstood it.

PS: I didn't know she is Jewish. I'm sorry that she is. Being open minded is one thing, not condemning unethical or immoral behaviour is another.

Oct-03-06  SanChess: Kramnik's draw in game 6 was indeed remarkable and got the best of Topalov by freezing him positionally with impeccable defense.

If you were Topalov's second what would you suggest for his next white tomorrow? I have already advanced he tries an e4 opening. Come on, anyone?

Oct-03-06  CHKM8N8: <SanChess>
1.e4 seems to be his last, best hope. However with that opening against a great positional player could end up causing him to give up the point he got on the technicality! (Or however you want to describe it) Kudos to both players for continuing to play...where it was either player could have just walked away and refused to continue.
Oct-03-06  CHKM8N8: Could someone please tell me what "Illness" Kramnik is suffering? I found he has arthritis, but find it hard to believe that is what everyone keeps referring?
Oct-03-06  mojoXX: You can read about the disease here:
Oct-05-06  yudhimaster: Well, i think Topalov still can't acknowledge his title as the world champion... I think its best 9Bxc5.. theres no trap there.. just an equalising move.
Oct-06-06  CHKM8N8: <mojoXX> Thanks for the link. Now I understand... Thanks again.
Oct-07-06  aw1988: <Especially considering who lost to Leko in the final of the qualifying (Dortmund 2002).>

To be fair, the schedule was horrible for Topalov and good for Leko, but yes, Bufon's claims are often unsubstantiated (sp?).

Mar-30-09  WhiteRook48: would I have played 14...Rg8 if I'd never seen this game? No.
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