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Savielly Tartakower vs Aristide Gromer
"Fly by Knight" (game of the day May-01-2006)
Paris (1933), Paris FRA, rd 6, Oct-24
English Opening: Symmetrical. Symmetrical Variation (A36)  ·  1-0



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find similar games 1 more Tartakower/A Gromer game
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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-01-06  pwrstick: Man these end game scenarios are really hard for me to calculate!
May-01-06  themadhair: <EA><Doesn't 54...Bxe5 draw?>I don't think so. I think white can use the opposition to win the b6 pawn.

Eg. 54...Bxe5 55.Kxe5 Kd7 (all other moves lose the pawn on almost on the spot) 56.Kd5 Kc7 (again all other moves lose)57.Ke6 Kb7 (other moves are similar) 58.Kd7 Kb8 (other moves similar) 59.Kc6 Ka7 60.Kc7 and the b pawn drops. The theme for white is use the opposition to get the c6 square and what buggers black is that he can't use the c6 or a6 squares.

May-01-06  goldthread: I wonder if on move 31 black can play Qxe3+ followed by Bh6 getting rid of the bad bishop.
May-01-06  EmperorAtahualpa: <themadhair> Yes, I see how it works now. Thanks!
May-01-06  ChessConquer: Go RUSH!!!
May-01-06  itz2000: 54.. Bxe5 draws indeed!

54.. Bxe5
55. Kxe5, Kd7
56. ?, Kc7

now the c6 pawn is defended and white has no way to attack it. therefore, a draw!

May-01-06  themadhair: <itz2000> Read my above post to see how white wins. The problem black has is that white can use the opposition to force his black's king to abandon the c-pawn.
May-01-06  ReikiMaster: <themadhair> You are right. 54...Bxe5 55.Kxe5 Kd7 56.Kd5 is a basic textbook position where black loses because he must move his King.
May-01-06  jperr75108: 31... Qxe3 I think white can play Kxe3 and escape to the kingside.
May-01-06  lopium: Maybe Nh1.
May-01-06  slapwa: I agree with Atking that 31. ..., Nf4 would have been better, but think that if 32. Bxf4, Black should continue 32. ..., Qxf4+ and then capture on f5, simply picking the pawn up.
May-01-06  suenteus po 147: Another excellent endgame by Tartakower. With games like this it's easy to see why he and Capablanca were friends (in terms of similarities in specific strengths).
May-01-06  kevin86: A good knight will beat a bad bishop anyday-go Cavalier!
May-01-06  Atking: Slapwa. You are right. I was thinking without board and for me white queen was in d2 and the white king in e2 !? So my Nf4+ isn't a reality still clearly a better move and better for Black. Gromer plaid better than Tartakower until this point.
May-01-06  goldthread: 31... Qxe3 32. Kxe3 Bh6+ 33. Kf3 Nd4+ It does not seem that black can escape to the king side as <jperr71508> suggests.
May-01-06  LPeristy: This is my sort of game. Slow and crushing. The fact that I also play the english doesn't factor into it at all. *sarcasm*
May-01-06  CapablancaFan: <EmperorAtahualpa: Interesting game!

Doesn't 54...Bxe5 draw?

54...Bxb5 55.Kxe5 Ke7 56.Kd5 Kd7, then what?> A flaw in your line. 54...Bxb5 55.Kxe5 Ke7? (The king is already on e7!) So the king has to move. The reason Gromer didn't exchange here was this if 54...Bxb5? 55.Kxe5 Kd7 56.Kd5 Kc7 57.Ke6!Kb7 (or Kd8)58.Kd6 and black cannot prevent the b6 pawn from falling.

May-01-06  Joshua01: I think that the losing move was probably 31...Nd4.
Black had lots of space for most of his pieces, but trading all active pieces was virtually unavoidable after 31...Nd4. The bad bishop really stands out, even at that point. A very instructive game.
May-04-06  dakgootje: Yes okay, indeed <54...Bxb5 55.Kxe5 Ke7 56.Kd5 Kd7> is obviously not possible, as 55 ke7 is illegal to do, so lets not say this anymore as this has already been pointed out several times before. More interesting is the question: what would have happend if this would have happend. Imagine the following position would occur on the board with white to move:

click for larger view

Of course this is the position which would derive out of <54...Bxe5 55.Kxe5 Ke7 56.Kd5 Kd7> when Ke7 would've been legal. This position would indeed draw wouldnt it?

May-04-06  pkendal: <dakgootje> you replicated the error. 54...Bxe5 55.Kxe5 and Black's king is already on e7, meaning that White has the opposition. Then it's textbook play. (If 55. ...Kd7 then 56. Kf6 and it's all over.)
May-04-06  dakgootje: <pkendal> Maybe it would be nice to read a whole post before posting wouldnt it? I stated that indeed 55. ...Ke7 is indeed illegal, but then the question I DID ask what would've happened if the move would've been legal. Stated an other way: Imagine a totally other game which strangely enters the postion which is here after 54. Nxe5 and in that same game all the pieces are placed as in this game at the same move BUT the black king is on f7 and for the sake of that weve got to follow the rules black is in check. So keep THAT game in mind, and imagine the following moves would happen in THAT game: 54. ...Bxe5 55. Kxe5 Ke7 56. Kd5 Kd7. And HEY we are in the position i posted as diagram above in my previous post! Astonishing how such things happen! Ah no, i know it! i wrote it that way before! Only then someone seemed to have misread my post a wrong way and thus i had to post it maybe slightly better understandable!

So now, again, i ask the same question: is that position a draw?

And now dont say the black king is already on e7 or i might have to hit someone...

May-04-06  pkendal: ah, now I understand, I'm sorry. This is a dead draw. There is no way for White's king to penetrate, as black has the opposition. Black can keep his king opposite White's on the 7th rank and White can't make any progress.
May-05-06  dakgootje: <This is a dead draw.> Yups, thought so, but as i often oversee things i wanted to know for sure, thus asked it here. Thanks =)
May-06-06  blingice: This game has one of the oddest opening pawn structures I've seen since the Dutch. After move 20, the pawns were in this position:

click for larger view

Although black has castled, he's ruined the point of it: to protect his king. Josh Waitzkin noted in his Chessmaster tutorials that moving your pawns forward on your castled side is something he calls "making air" or some odd term. Josh also noted that when you do something like that, your king is less safe. That is pretty intuitive to start with, and this game proves Josh's statement. Black doesn't care about his defense, and his attack is eventually (and very effectively) neutralized.

Jan-10-09  WhiteRook48: why did Black bury his KB on a3?
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