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| Jan-16-06 | | ajile: geez. Bxa7 was horrible. You have to be crazy to play a move like this in a position like this against a super grandmaster like Anand. Loses time and pulls White's pieces away from the center. Anand punishes accordingly. |
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| Jan-16-06 | | you vs yourself: Anand: “this is the second time in 14 years he tricked me into this same position! The first was in Manila 1992 and now today”. http://www.coruschess.com/
Vishy either checked his previous encounters with Chucky last night or he simply remembered the 14-yr old game! |
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| Jan-16-06 | | samikd: <Vishy either checked his previous encounters with Chucky last night or he simply remembered the 14-yr old game!> Its probably the former, but I wouldn't be surprised if its the later. He has phenomenal memory: he remembered the variation he played against Adams (San Luis) from his preparation over a decade ago ! |
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| Jan-16-06 | | Koster: He implies that he didn't remember the game if he says he was tricked. Maybe Ivanchuk reminded him later or else it occured to him during the game. White was slightly better but taking that pawn was the wrong way to go. 13. Nb5 followed by Rd1 keeps black under some pressure. |
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| Jan-16-06 | | Ulhumbrus: After 12...Bd6 White may appear to have an advantage in development. However this is illusory because most of this lead is attributable to a white piece which is in fact placed badly, the white queen. White will have to lose at least two moves just to get the queen placed better. |
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| Jan-16-06 | | Ulhumbrus: 13...Rxc6 ?! will invite attack later in the form of the move Bf3 ( Seirawan) after the white queen moves, which she will have to anyway. On 13..Bxc6 14 Qh4 Ne4! 15 Qxd8 Rxd8 16 Nxe4 Bxe4 Black seems to have a slight advantage. The text could have passed the advantage to White. |
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| Jan-16-06 | | Ulhumbrus: Instead of 15 Bxa7, Seirawan gives 15 Bf3! with advantage. One difference made by having the QR instead of the QB on c6 is that Black lacks the move 15...Ne4 continuing to harass the White Queen. |
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| Jan-16-06 | | starkidaway: <beautyInChess>...
there is no 33....Rf6+ since there is a still a pawn on f3
I believe the line is simpler
29. hxge Qf2 (threating mate on Rh6)...and white has no defence against mate |
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| Jan-16-06 | | thomaspaine: Anand was very lucky here. He was outplayed, but escaped a bad position through Ivanchuk's awful blunder. He'll need to rely less on luck if he wants to win Corus! |
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| Jan-16-06 | | thinimmy: <Anand was very lucky here. He was outplayed, but escaped a bad position through Ivanchuk's awful blunder.
He'll need to rely less on luck if he wants to win Corus!> Anand was neither outplayed nor relying on luck.It was almost an equal position but towards the end Ivanchuk blundered.That's it.Maybe at one point Chucky might be gained some initiative at some point which he missed. |
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| Jan-16-06 | | Hesam7: Anand was definitely outplayed. After 15.Bf3! Fruit thinks:
click for larger view15... Ra6 16. Bxb7 Ra5 17. Bf3 Bc6 18. Be2 Qb8 19. Rfd1 Qxb2 20. Rab1 Qxc3 21. Bd2 Qa3 22. Bxa5 Re8 23. Bb5 Re4 24. Qh3 Qxh3 25. gxh3 Bd5 (eval: +0.65) Depth: 20
8700M nodes
690K nodes/sec
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| Jan-16-06 | | you vs yourself: Isn't +0.65 easy to convert to a draw for these super-GMs? I think chessbase did some analysis and concluded that this game is essentially a draw, but was lost because of the blunder(22.Re1) by Ivanchuk. Even Kasparov thought 15.Bxa7 was crazy. Overall, Ivanchuk made too many inaccuracies to not lose this game. |
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| Jan-17-06 | | thomaspaine: <Anand was neither outplayed nor relying on luck> I don't think so. The pawn snatch by Ivanchuk was a huge mistake ("he's gone crazy" commented Kasparov). After Bf3 (see <Hesam7>'s line), Anand himself confessed his situation to be "in crisis". Anand got outplayed in the opening, but Ivanchuk blundered twice, first as above and then the fatal Re1 (before which Anand could, at best, hope for was a draw, though the situation after exchange sac with two white passed panws in not clear). |
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| Jan-17-06 | | Hesam7: <you vs yourself> I fail to see how Black can equalize after 15. Bf3! If you have analysis that shows Black can equalize please post them. White came out of the opening with a big plus and then made two blunders the first one equalized and the second one lost the game. I looked up chessbase.com and there was nothing indicating that Black could have equalized. After 15. Bxa7 Kasparov comments <He's gone crazy>, since White still had the draw I conclude that in Kasparov's opinion White had a significant plus back then. Anand's comments:
<Pre round sole leader Ivanchuk chose a very tame sub variation of the symmetrical English against Anand, and was consuming a great deal of his time in the opening. As Vishy revealed in the press conference, both players were trying to lure each other into a position they felt uncomfortable with. Anand: “this is the second time in 14 years he tricked me into this same position! The first was in Manila 1992 and now today”. He felt White was better, and even his 7…Be6, which he had prepared after the first encounter, failed to equalize. 11…Rc8?! was a “lemon”, according to Vishy, who said he should have opted for 11…Be7 and a quick 0-0. Ivanchuk returned the favor with 15.Bxa7?!, as 15.Bf3 and Rd1 to follow, would have been huge for White. Now after 20…Nd5 “I thought I was forcing a draw”—Anand, since (see diagram 2) 22.Bxb6 Rxb6 23.Rxd5 Rxa6 24.Rxd8 Rxa2 winning the last queenside pawn. Sadly for Chuky, he blundered with 22.Rfe1? Rg6! and it’s all over. Perhaps White missed 23.Bf3 Bxf3! 24.Rxd8 Rxg2+ 25.Kf1 Rxh2 with mate.> |
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| Jan-17-06 | | you vs yourself: <Hesam7> I don't have a program to check the lines after 15.Bf3 and I'm not strong enough to give the lines on my own. But in the past, during live games, I have seen many games where one side has a about +.65 advantage that are drawn. |
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| Jan-17-06 | | sucaba: I guess that White can win after 15. ♗f3 ♖c8 16. ♖fd1 ♗e7 17. ♗xa7 ♘d5 18. ♕d4 ♘xc3 19. bxc3 ♗c6 20. ♗xc6 ♖xc6 21. ♕xd8 ♗xd8 22. ♗d4 ♗a5  . <Hesam>:<After 15.Bf3! Fruit thinks:(...)
15... Ra6 16. Bxb7 Ra5 17. Bf3 Bc6 18. Be2 Qb8 19. Rfd1 Qxb2 20. Rab1 Qxc3 21. Bd2 Qa3 22. Bxa5 Re8 23. Bb5 Re4 24. Qh3 Qxh3 25. gxh3 Bd5 (eval: +0.65)
Depth: 20
8700M nodes
690K nodes/sec>
Maybe 26. ♗c3 ♖e6 27. ♗xf6 ♗e4 28. ♖xd6 ♖xd6 29. ♗d3 gxf6 30. ♗xe4  where White is up a ♗ is outside the engine's horizon of 20 half moves. |
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| Jan-17-06 | | Hesam7: <you vs yourself: <Hesam7> I don't have a program to check the lines after 15.Bf3 and I'm not strong enough to give the lines on my own. But in the past, during live games, I have seen many games where one side has a about +.65 advantage that are drawn.> I am not a strong player either, but you sounded like you had seen (or had) some analysis. During the live games most users run the engine for about 5 minutes and the depth they get is around 12 to 14. So those are not as reliable as a depth 20 evaluation. <sucaba> Some improvements after 15. Bf3 Rc8 16. Rfd1: 
click for larger view[A] 16... Be7 17. Qg3! Re8 18. Bd4 Rc4 19. Nd5 Rxd4!? 20. Rxd4 Nxd5 21. Bxd5 [B] 16... Be5! 17. Ne4 Re8 18. Nc5 Bxb2 19. Rab1 Rxe3 20. fxe3 Rxc5 21. Rxb2 And you are certainly right, the last moves in the engine lines are not that reliable. I guess there should be improvements for both side at the end of that line. |
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| Jan-18-06 | | atragon: 15. Bxa7 is a crazy move... why some GMs can makes some mistakes is so strange for me. Anyone can see that the bishop is out of play, needing protection 15. Bf3 was an easy, natural move, i yhink a much weaker player than Chucky could play that. Vishy is strong, very strong and doesn't need these gifts... |
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| Jan-18-06 | | thomaspaine: <why some GMs can makes some mistakes is so strange for me> Well, one possible explanation (for this losing blunder is a very good position) is that perhaps the opening battle was psychological. Chucky wanted Anand in uncomfortable opening, and was looking for moves with that in mind, and NOT the best moves. He achieved this objective early on, but then during this plan lost the thread himself. |
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| Jan-18-06 | | sucaba: <Hesam>:<<sucaba> Some improvements after 15. Bf3 Rc8 16. Rfd1:(...) [A] 16... Be7 17. Qg3! Re8 18. Bd4 Rc4 19. Nd5 Rxd4!? 20. Rxd4 Nxd5 21. Bxd5 [B] 16... Be5! 17. Ne4 Re8 18. Nc5 Bxb2 19. Rab1 Rxe3 20. fxe3 Rxc5 21. Rxb2> I agree that in [A] 17. ♕g3  is even stronger then 17. ♗xa7. I have found no defence for Black in [B]: 21. _ b6 22. ♖bd2 and White dominates the d-file. |
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| Jan-18-06 | | notyetagm: Posted by Mig at the Daily Dirt chess blog:
<Chukky, Chukky, Chukky, what to do with Ivanchuk? A good opening against Anand turned into a desperate and futile struggle for survival after he pinched a poisoned pawn. As Kasparov put it to me, "typical Ivanchuk, two great wins with black and then he grabs the a-pawn like an old computer."> |
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| Jan-18-06 | | thomaspaine: <typical Ivanchuk, two great wins with black and then he grabs the a-pawn like an old computer.> LOL. |
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| Feb-22-06 | | patzer2: Here's an analysis with Fritz 8, the Opening Explorer and two other online sources. <1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 c5 3. Nc3 Nc6> Entering the English, Symmetrical (A35). <4. e3> This move is seldom played. Book is 4. d4 as in D Khismatullin vs A Pashikian, 2005 or 4. g3 as in Ivanchuk vs Illescas-Cordoba, 2005. <4... e5> More popular is 4...e6 as in
Portisch vs R Markus, 2005. <5. Be2>
This is seldom played, but it's not a bad alternative. The main line is 5. d4 as in S Sale vs Zhong Zhang, 2005
or J Lechtynsky vs Oral, 2001.. <5...d5> Black should equalize after this move, but as the game shows
it's easier said than done. <6. d4 exd4> A good option is 6...e4 as in S Kalinitschew vs Holzke, 2005. <7.exd4> Per the tournament report at http://www.coruschess.com/report.ph...: "...Vishy revealed in the press conference, both
players were trying to lure each other into a position they felt uncomfortable
with. Anand: 'This is the second time in 14 years (Ivanchuk) tricked me into
this same position! The first was in Ivanchuk vs Anand, 1992 and now today.' " <7...Be6 8. Be3 dxc4 9. Qa4!?> This appears to be a novelty. Previously played was 9. 0-0 as in Rublevsky vs Bologan, 2002 or Topalov vs Leko, 2002. <9...cxd4 10. Nxd4 Bd7 11. Qxc4
Rc8?!> Fritz 8 gives this as best, but the tournament report says
Anand called it a "lemon" and asserted he "should have opted for 11...Be7 and a quick ...0-0" instead. <12. O-O Bd6!?> Anand plays a less than best move to create complications. Instead,
Black can equalize with 12... Nxd4 13. Qxd4 Bc5 14. Qf4 O-O 15. Bxc5 Rxc5 16. Rad1 Qb6=. <13. Nxc6>
White gets a slight advantage after 13. Ndb5 Be7 14. Rfd1 O-O 15. Qf4 Re8 16. Nd6 Bxd6 17. Rxd6 Qa5 18. Qg3 Qe5 19. Qxe5 Rxe5 20. Bf3 Re6 21. Rad1 Rxd6 22. Rxd6 Kf8 23. Bg5 Be6 24. Bxf6 gxf6 25. Rd2 b6 26. Be2 Ne5 27. f4 Nc4 28. Bxc4 Rxc4 29. g3 , but it doesn't look to be enough for more than a draw. |
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| Feb-22-06 | | patzer2: <13... Rxc6> Clearly favoring White is 13... Bxc6? 14. Nb5! a6 [14... Bxg2?? 15. Nxd6+ Qxd6 (15... Kd7 16. Nxc8 Bd5 17. Bg4+ Nxg4 18. Qxd5+ Kxc8 19. Qc4+ Kb8 20. Qxg4 )16. Qxc8+ Qd8 17. Qxd8+ Kxd8 18. Kxg2 ] 15. Na7 Rc7 16. Nxc6 Rxc6 17. Qb3 Qb8 [17... Qc7 18. Bf3 Rc4 19. Bb6! Bxh2+ (19... Qc8 20. Rfe1+ Be7 21. Rxe7+ Kxe7 22. Qa3+ Ke8 23. Re1+) 20. Kh1 Rh4 21. Rfe1+ Be5+ 22. Kg1 Qe7 23. Rac1 O-O 24. Bc5 ] 18. Bf3 Rc7 19. Qa4+ b5 20. Qxa6 Bxh2+ 21. Kh1 Be5 22. Bc6+ Kf8 23. Rad1 b4 24. Rfe1 Kg8 25. Ba7 Rxa7 26. Qxa7 . <14. Qh4 O-O 15. Bxa7?!> Per the Corus tournament report, this was a
mistake, "as 15.Bf3 and Rd1 to follow, would have been huge for White."
Fritz 8 indicates White gets a clear advantage after 15. Bf3! Ra6 (15... Ng4 16. Qxd8 Rxd8 17. Bxc6 Nxe3 18. Rfe1 ) 16. Bxb7 Ra5 17. Bf3 Ng4 18. Qxd8 Rxd8 19. Bxg4 Bxg4 20. h3 Bh5 21. f3 Bg6 22. Rfd1 . <15... b6 16. Rad1 Bc5 17. b4 Be7 18. Qd4 Rd6 19. Qc4 Be6 20. Qa6 Nd5 21. Nxd5 Bxd5 22. Rfe1?> This is the decisive mistake. Instead, White holds after 22. b5 Re8 23. Rxd5 Rxd5 24. Qxb6 . Also worth considering is 22. Rxd5= or 22. Bxb6= as suggested by Mark Crowther at http://www.chesscenter.com/twic/eve.... <22... Rg6!>
Anand's reply is a discovered attack, which wins a pawn and the game. <23. g3 Bxb4 24. Bc4> No help for White is 24. Rf1 Qa8 25. f3 Bb7 26. Qa4 Ba5  . <24... Bxe1 25. Bxd5 Qe7 26. a4> This loses very quickly, causing at least one commentator to label it (?) as a bad move, but I'm reluctant to do so since Black gets a lost endgame even after the more stubborn 26. Bxb6 Bxf2+ 27. Kxf2 Qf6+ 28. Kg1 Qxb6+ 29. Qxb6 Rxb6 . <26... Rf6!> This decides with simple
attacking pressure. Also winning is Fritz 8's flashy pursuit combination
26... Bxf2+ 27. Kxf2 Qc5+ 28. Kf3 Rf6+ 29. Kg4 Qc2! . <27. f4 Qe3+ 28.
Kh1 Bxg3 0-1.> White resigns in lieu of 29. hxg3 Qxg3 . |
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| Oct-22-11 | | Hesam7: Studying the symmetrical english I cam across this game again and it seems to me that after 15. Bf3! Rc8 my earlier suggestion, 16. Rfd1, is not accurate. White should play: 16. Rad1!, the difference between the two becomes apparent in the following variation: 16. ... Be5 17. Bxb7 Rb8 18. Bc6 Rxb2 19. Na4!:
click for larger viewHad the White rooks been on a1 & d1 rather than f1 & d1 Black could have played 19. ... Rc2! after which White is losing material since 20. Rac1?? actually loses after 20. ... Bxc6 21. Rxd8 Rxc1+ 22. Bxc1 Rxd8: 
click for larger viewDue to the weak back rank White will lose a piece: 23. Kf1 Rd1+ 24. Ke2 Rxc1 25. Kd2 Rb1 and Black's extra piece will be more than sufficient to win the game. Now after 15. Bf3! Rc8 16. Rad1! as before 16. ... Be7 17. Qg3! and 16. ... Qc7 17. Bd4 ares very good for White. |
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