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Vladimir Kramnik vs Evgeny Bareev
Russian Championship Superfinal (2005), Moscow RUS, rd 6, Dec-24
Slav Defense: Chameleon Variation (D15)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-25-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: It's also possible that Topalov, not having an impressive match record himself, is not too confident in his chances in a match with Kramnik.
Dec-25-05  alicefujimori: <chancho>That is definitely a possibility. But I am a little tired to hear people keep saying that Topalov avoided Kramnik.

According to the articles in chessbase.com, the negotiation between the Kramnik-Topalov match fell through because all parties couldn't agree with the terms of the match and NOT because Topalov didn't want to play Kramnik. Kramnik-fans here keeps blaming Topalov for the fell through of the match. But they failed to realize that Topalov could not play Kramnik without FIDE's consent (in accordance with his contract with FIDE in San Luis). Since the parties disagreed with the terms, and hence, FIDE didn't let Topalov play. So no match, period.

Where is the avoiding in that?? Kramnik-fans here keep calling other people who criticized Kramnik as Kramnik bashers. I don't see how they made much difference when they are accusing Topalov for something that wasn't in his control. So are we going to call those Kramnik-fans "Topalov bashers" now??

It's pathetic of those who always portrayed themselves as "the good guys" here while they are actually doing the same things that "the bad guys" (Kramnik-bashers) are doing. How low could those people get?

Dec-25-05  csmath: It is a risk-reward issue. There are risks and the rewards are meager. You can be quite sure that Topalov in 2002, 2003, and 2004 would have played a match with Kramnik if offered. Kramnik had no such intentions. So now Topalov is the champion, there is no reason for him to give anything to Kramnik either.

Kramnik will first need to earn that privilege. And there is a FIDE cycle in place for FIDE title so he can try.

Dec-25-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: <Kramnik is not qualified for that match> Kramnik didn't have to qualify, he's already World Champion! If Topalov FIDE Champ, following the line from Kasim and Pono, wants to be World Champion he needs to beat Kramnik. Kramnik follows the line from Kasparov and Karpov. Blame Garry himself, not Kramnik for not getting an automatic re-match. Garry didn't want one, and he was the World Champion when he faced Kramnik and was defeated. After the match was over Garry said this. "Vladimir is the real World Champion and all the FIDE rankings you can send to the trash!"...nothing has changed accept that Kasim took over FIDE from Pono, and now Topalov has taken FIDE title from Kasim. Now thats the end of the story.
Dec-25-05  csmath: <Kramnik didn't have to qualify, he's already World Champion!>

Then he needs no matches with Topalov, it has been said many times over - Kramnik can keep his title for posterity, who cares.

Change that avatar man, you look like somebody buttered you up and readied for frying. :-)

Dec-25-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: <you can be sure Topalov in 2002, 3 and 4 would have played a match with Kramnik if offered> No offer is needed. Leko qualified. Had Topalov qualified he would have taken Leko's place in 2004. Kramnik considers Topalov a valid candidate (any others?)...from winning the San Luis Tourney and other great performances as well. Topalov is ducking him, plain and simple. Kramnik owns over a 2-1 majority in their games, he defeated Kasparov in a match, of course Topalov is a little weary of facing him in a head to head match. And as long as folks like you and others in the chess community let him get away with such cowardly behavior, he feels no one else cares, why should he. Also if he is just satisfied with being another FIDE Champion and not the World Chess Champion then that's his Everest.
Dec-25-05  csmath: <No offer is needed. Leko qualified.>

Exactly. Leko did, Topalov did not in 2002 and neither did Kramnik in 2005.

Dec-25-05
Premium Chessgames Member
  Joshka: <neither did Kramnik in 2005> Kramnik defended his title in 2004 against Leko who qualified. It would seem to any soberminded person that Topalov deserves to have the next shot at Vlad. Guess he doesn't want it;-) Anyway I feel justified that the World Chess Champion Title following the Kasparov, Karpov line, is the lineage that I adhere too. Topalov could be the next link, but he's playin' the waiting game;-)
Dec-25-05  csmath: <Kramnik defended his title in 2004 against Leko who qualified. It would seem to any soberminded person that Topalov deserves to have the next shot at Vlad. Guess he doesn't want it;-)>

You are guessing right but you are kinda slow. :-)

Dec-25-05  ughaibu: Alicefujimori: Kramnik qualified by beating Leko and Topalov qualified by winning San Luis. Where's the insult?
Dec-26-05  Unicornio: <The point is that Topalov refused a match with Kramnik because Kramnik> hasnt earned nothing to play with him.If Kramnik wants to play the World Champion Topalov, he can participate as anybody else in order to try to beat him, and CORRECTION HEREN Kramnik is not the World Champion, he has a personal braingames title that he can keep for himself.

Kasparov broke up with FIDE, we dont care why he did that, then he was considered Champion simply because he was far away from everybody else, winning tournaments, being at the top for 20 years, and habing an ELO that everyone could dream of, simply cause of that he was considered champion, but then he plays a braingames match with Kramnik, and Kramniks keeps going down, down, in his development, in his ELO, in being drawish, lazy, and this guy thinks he is going to be recognized as Kasparov was as the WC??

He must earn that, if he wins important tournaments, keep increasing his ELO, and puts himself and his chess far away from everybody, i will call him champion, even Kasparov would do that, but he hasnt earned nothing, he is an ex-good GM, who has become in the chess clown.

Dec-26-05  ughaibu: Unicornio: As you ignore counter arguements that you cant deal with and repeat empty assertions, you're position has no credibility. You are however providing a clear demonstration of the shallowness and stupidity of Kramnik bashers, thanks for that.
Dec-26-05  aw1988: Ughaibu: Never forget Sofia.
Dec-26-05  ughaibu: Who's she? I must've been really drunk when we met her.
Dec-26-05  aw1988: Topalov has won her over, and thus Kramnik the champion getting crushed, in last, it's sure to determine chess history for 20 years.
Dec-26-05  ughaibu: Chess history? You mean all those fairy tales about invincible Cubans having strokes and drawing conspiracies to bully yankee teenagers in the tropics?
Dec-26-05  aw1988: Yes, exactly. The horrible behavior of Alexander Alexandrovich, and how Steinitz became mentally insane. And did you know... Keres would have become world champion, if it weren't for threats from evil Communist Russia.
Dec-26-05  Ulhumbrus: 15...Bg4!! is a the first move of a brilliant stratagem, if Bareev has foreseen the consequences of ...e5 following ..Bxf3. The point is that White is in trouble if he cannot answer ...e5 with dxe5, and has to submit to an exchange of pawns on d4.In that case, this may be an unusual case where it is Black's N which is the superior minor piece, instead of White's KB. A similar position was reached in the fourth match game between Karpov and Korchnoi in 1974, and with a bishop for a knight, Karpov came close to losing that game.15...Bg4 in fact threatens ...exd4 following ...e5 following ...Bxf3 and White has to find an answer to the threat. All this suggests that instead of 16 h3, 16 Rfc1 or even 16 Nd3 is correct.The stratagem begun by 15...Bg4!! is worthy of both the tournament and of the opponent, the world champion Kramnik. (Kramnik won a match against Kasparov, fair and square, and it does not seem to be his fault that no one has arranged another credible match yet. I have yet to see a convincing answer to this argument.)
Dec-26-05  ajile: I think Kramnik must have felt bereaved after this game.

heh

sorry couldn't help myself.

:o)

Dec-26-05  Conde de Montecristo: <ajile> Ok, nobody cant help himself with Kramnik making everything possible to look as a clown.
Dec-26-05  ajile: bereaved=Bareev

you know yer in trouble when you start having to explain your jokes.

=: /

BTW I like Kramnik. His positional play is equal to or better than Karpov.

Dec-26-05  weisyschwarz: What was Kramnik doing with his Q on a7, out in front, spearheading an attack that Bareev had plenty of charge to repel? Was it only then that he realized how in deep and isolated his queen was?
Mar-31-06  Topzilla: A fantastic sequence of moves by Bareev, poor play by the World Champion of excuses.
Apr-05-06  Topzilla: Why some people see this game like a horrible lack of calculation of Kramnik, instead of seeing the fantastic calculating skills of Bareev??

I love this game, a truly masterpiece.

Jun-22-06  The Phantom: <I think Kramnik must have felt bereaved after this game. sorry couldn't help myself>

dotn worry, nobody can resist sometimes :o)

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