|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jan-20-09 | | marcus231084: forgive what could be chess blindness on the part of a newbie to chess, but wouldn't 30) RD7-D8 be a smart finish also? or have i not thought this through enough? |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | brazil chess: How about black on 30...Bf6!? |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | Once: <marcus231084> 30. Rd8 is an okayish sort of move. It targets black's weak back rank and forces an exchange. As white is already a rook for knight exchange up, any further exchanges just magnify his advantage. But if you play a move like 30. Rd8 you need to be ready for black responses such as 30...Bxa3 (which also defends f8) or 30...g6, attacking the white queen. White is still winning in both these lines, but it gives black more play than he probably deserves, and it gives you more calculation to do. <YouRang> I really like your 30. R1d6 line. Fritz rates it as more than +6, so yes it does win. Here's one line out of several: 30. R1d6 Qa8 31. Nd5 Qe8 32. Ne7+ Kh8 33. Qh5 Kh7 34. Nf5 Nc5 35.Re7 Qc8 36. Nxh6 Qc6 37. Nxf7+ Kg8 38. Qh8# And here's the "unplugged" version of today's puzzle for us all to imprint in our pattern recognition memories. From here ... 
click for larger view1. Rxf7 Rxf7 2. Rd8+ Rf8 3. R or Qx f8# |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | Kasputin: After looking through more of the posts, I am glad that I found the first move (as most others did). Seeing the results of a faulty 30 ...Rxf7 was also straightforward (again most other kibitzers saw this as well). But I would hardly say that I solved this. In fact, just the opposite. I saw some of the possible defences, some of the possible replies, and perhaps in a real game situation I would have navigated these possibilities well enough. I think that knowing this was a puzzle, knowing that something concrete should be there, actually made the process of analysis more difficult in this case. I can't know this with any degree of certainty, but I think in a real game situation it might have been more of a leap to play 30. Rxf7, but I think if I did go down that analytical line that my initial analysis might have been more accurate because I wouldn't be expecting something concrete and clear as I did in this Tuesday puzzle. In this case (knowing that this was a puzzle), the more I looked at it the more confusing all the variations became. In a real game situation I wouldn't be expecting any clarity, and ironically that knowledge might have meant that I would have analyzed this particular position with more accuracy and more speed. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | YouRang: I had a bit of a typo problem in the "choice #1" part of my post above... <Choice #1: 30...Qc8, after which I have 31.Nd5 (threat: Ne7+ forking K&Q). If he moves tries 31...Qa8 (to save his Q and guard his N), then Qxb5 forking the N and B.> There's a move in there that I forgot to type! It goes: 30.R1d6 Qc8 31.Nd5 Qa8 <32.Ne7+ Kh8> and NOW 33.Qxb5 with the N & B fork. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | pubplayer: <YouRang> Thanks for your post - I was wondering if anybody else had considered R1d6. Separately, can anyone tell me white's continuation after 28. ...Bxa3? It seems to me that black's actual 28. ...Qc8 is just fatal time-wasting! |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | patzer2: White exploits Black's weakened back rank with 30. Rxf7! to solve today's Tuesday puzzle. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | YouRang: <pubplayer: <YouRang> Thanks for your post - I was wondering if anybody else had considered R1d6.> You're welcome. :-)
<Separately, can anyone tell me white's continuation after 28. ...Bxa3? It seems to me that black's actual 28. ...Qc8 is just fatal time-wasting!> I don't think you want to do that. The bishop at b2 is providing critical defense of the g7 square from afar. If 28...Bxa3, then 29.Ne6! threatening Rf8. If 29...fxe6, then white mates with 30.Rxg7+ (the quickest way, Qxe6+ or Qg6 also win) Kxg7 31.Rd7+ ~#. Of course, if black moves the rook on move 29 (e.g. Rc8), then Qxf7+ ~#. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | ruzon: I also liked R1d6, but unlike <YouRang> I did not consider the detour of 30...♕c8 before ♕a8. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | njchess: < marcus231084: forgive what could be chess blindness on the part of a newbie to chess, but wouldn't 30) RD7-D8 be a smart finish also? or have i not thought this through enough?> 30. Rd8!? helps White's game, but its not as forcing as Rxf7!. It gives Black a chance for some counter play. 30. Rd8!? g6 (the defect of Rd8 is that Black need not take, and therefore can seek counter play with g6) 31. Qb1 (best?) Be5 (Bxa3 32. Qa1 Be7 33. Rxf8 Bxf8 [Kxf8 34. Qh8++] 34. Rd8 c3!  ) 32. h5! White retains a small, lasting advantage, but there is more chess to play before the win. Larsen saw Rxf7! as the most forceful move, and one reason he may have played was for its shock value. If his opponent was having time trouble, that could have been a factor as well. Certainly, 30. ... Rc8? is not the best reply. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | eblunt: <YouRang> Thanks for the analysis. I had 30 ♖1d6 ♕c8 31 ♘d5 as my main line which I though was 100% wrong when I saw the solution, but actually , thanks to your post I see it's a pretty solid winning line as well. No immediate mate, but black drops a resignable amount of material. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | WhiteRook48: bit easy for a Tuesday puzzle. However I didn't see the checkmate motif at first. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | Kasputin: <WhiteRook48: bit easy for a Tuesday puzzle.> Why is this easy for a Tuesday puzzle? |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | Oregon104: <Kasputin: <WhiteRook48: bit easy for a Tuesday puzzle.> Why is this easy for a Tuesday puzzle? > I think it's on par for a Tuesday if the only defense to consider for Black is 30...Rxf7, which leads to forced mate. Black has a few other defenses which have been pointed out that are much less obvious for White to continue and make things a lot harder for White. I think this puzzle is definitely harder than a usual Tuesday, considering there are several defenses for Black besides the help-mate of ...Rxf7. I think if a person really runs through all the lines after ...Bf6 or ...Qc8 or ...Rc8 etc., that this puzzle ends up being close to a Friday level. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | sagahelten: Instead of 31. Rdd7 I played Ng6. After seeing Larsen's move, I thought this was perhaps better, but Fritz9 agrees with me on: 31 Ng6! after Qe8 32. Ne7+ Black is dead meat. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | DarthStapler: I got the first move |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | Slurpeeman: I went for 30.Rd8, but it loses to Bxa3. Then, after 31. Rxf8, Bxf8 white is at a disadvantage because of Black's 3 passed pawns on the Queenside. In the line I skimmed through, Black, piecewise, has a B+N for a Rook. The move looked so right tho! (( |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | Oliveira: <brazil chess: How about black on 30...Bf6!?> 31.♖xf8+, ♔xf8; 32.♖d8, ♔e7; 33.♖c8, ♕d6; (33...♘c7; 34.♖xc7+; 33...♕d7; 34.♘g6+, ♔d6; 35.♕f4+, ♔d5; 36.e4+ etc.) 34.♘g6+, ♔f7; 35.♖f8  |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | MostlyAverageJoe: <Slurpeeman: I went for 30.Rd8, but it loses to Bxa3> No it doesn't. It delays the win.
<Then, after 31. Rxf8, Bxf8 white is at a disadvantage> Nope, 32.Rd7 and black is in trouble:
click for larger view32...f6 might look like a defense, but fails to 33.Ng6 |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | MostlyAverageJoe: PS: after 30.Rd8, black should play 30...g6 to delay the loss even more. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | YoungEd: Two in a row! Woot! |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | Woody Wood Pusher: O.K. I saw <30.Rxf7> is pretty crushing but I think 30.R1d6 also wins as well. |
|
| Jan-20-09 | | Woody Wood Pusher: Interesting puzzle, has anybody run the line 30.R1d6,Qa8 <31.Rxh6,gxh6> 32.Qg4+,Kh8 33.Ng6+,Kh7 etc Looks good for at least a draw and maybe a sneaky win as well! Could somebody check this with a computer?
Cheers! |
|
| Jan-21-09 | | YouRang: <Woody Wood Pusher: Interesting puzzle, has anybody run the line 30.R1d6,Qa8 <31.Rxh6,gxh6> 32.Qg4+,Kh8 33.Ng6+,Kh7 etc
Looks good for at least a draw and maybe a sneaky win as well! Could somebody check this with a computer?
Cheers!>
That appears to work! At least it wins the exchange: 30.R1d6 Qa8 31.Rxh6 gxh6 32.Qg4+ Kh8 33.Ng6+ Kh7
click for larger view
Then 34.Nxf8 Qxf8 35.Qe6 (threat: Rxf7+ winning Q) Kg7 35.Qxa6 |
|
| Jan-22-09 | | Woody Wood Pusher: Hey <You Rang> Thanks for taking a look at that for me! Cheers!
|
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
