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Jose Garcia Padron vs Juan Manuel Bellon Lopez
Las Palmas (1990), Las Palmas ESP
Torre Attack: Classical Defense (A46)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-02-12  chesstoplay: < romni > Can you show us the diagram?

No, I do not know the puzzle off the top of my head.

< tamar > USCF rules are different than FIDE.

Under USCF, you can put the candidate promotion piece down and still change it. Your move is not completed until you hit your clock.

But there is another USCF rule about annoying behavior at the board that may be brought against such actions. Different TDs may rule differently on what is okay at a given time.

I prefer the FIDE rule. There is some clear sense to me that if your piece touches the board, it should be committed.

:)

Jul-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <chesstoplay> You're thinking of this composition by Troitzky:


click for larger view

I won't spoil your fun by showing how it's done ... oh, wait. This is Monday. Maybe I'd better.

The essential idea is to force the pawn to a2, play Kc3 to force Black's king from b1 to a1, and mate by discovered check with Kc2. As it turns out, all five bishops are necessary. Here's the main solution.

=====

1.Bce5 a5 2.Ba1 a4 3.Bbe5 Ka2 4.Kc2 a3 5.Kc3 Kxa1 6.Kb3+ Kb1 7.Ba1 a2 8.Kc3 Kxa1 9.Kc2#

White must move a bishop to a1 to stop the pawn from promoting; once it's off the board, there is no way to mate because White's king cannot cover both a2 and b1. One bishop must be sacrificed to force the pawn to a2 and another to set up the mate, so all five are necessary.

Jul-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Black is two pawns ahead.

White threatens 62.Kxg2, draw.

Stalemate appears if 61... g1=Q.

Black loses both pawns if 61... g1=N+ 62.Kg4 Nf(h)3 63.Kxf(h)3 followed by 64.Kg4, draw.

Therefore, only 61... g1=R and 61... g1=B win.

Jul-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: The idea of this puzzle is not how to win but how not to lose. Black can promote to rook or bishop and win.

He cannot! promote to a queen (stalemate) or knight (black captures the other pawn and knight cannot win by itself).or check at g4 (both pawns will be lost)

The best key move is g1=R

Jul-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Ole good old up engage the prominence afar o ok in ticking bishop or

rook in dud knight or bet queen it fooling rook so light in

stalemate tries linger on in seems it feint rook stops all yeah

for juan compact drive away it persay.

Jul-02-12  chesstoplay: < Phony > TY!! Great fun!
Jul-02-12  kingfu: I love underpromotions! Then on the other hand, Fischer and Petrosian played a Caro Kann that ended up with FOUR Queens and a draw!
Jul-02-12  Patriot: 61...g1=Q?? stalemate. So, 61...g1=R should work.
Jul-02-12  capablancakarpov: 61...g1=B would have been cooler....
Jul-02-12  YouRang: <capablancakarpov: 61...g1=B would have been cooler....>

Right. The most fun would be to promote the first pawn to a DSB, and the 2nd pawn to a N - then practice your K+B+N vs K mate. :-)

Jul-02-12  YouRang: This raises a question about the rules of chess:

We all know that once you make a move, you can't take it back. In fact, there's a "touch rule" that says once you touch a piece, you must move that piece.

But in a case like this, what if black pushed his pawn to g1 to promote it, reached over and touched the queen (off the board), realized his mistake, and then grabbed the rook instead?

Can the follow playing white say: "Hey, you touched the queen first, so you have to promote witht the queen and it's stalemate"?

Jul-02-12  galdur: Very cute play here.
Jul-02-12  chesstoplay: < You Rang >

< what if black pushed his pawn to g1 to promote it, reached over and touched the queen (off the board), realized his mistake, and then grabbed the rook instead >

USCF rules allow you to "touch" and change during promotion or, in this case, under-promotion.

Under USCF, you can put the candidate promotion piece down and still change it. Your move is not completed until you hit your clock.

:)

Jul-02-12  chesstoplay: Another position question for everyone...

Warehouse 13 had a chess puzzle position in the 3rd season.

Maybe episode 11???

Does anyone know what it was?

I'd love to see it!

TY in advance.

Jul-02-12  YouRang: <chesstoplay> The answer man! Thank you.
Jul-02-12  1stboard: < You Rang >

< what if black pushed his pawn to g1 to promote it, reached over and touched the queen (off the board), realized his mistake, and then grabbed the rook instead >

From my early days I was taught when I play chess, sit on your hands and do not move them till you are ready to move. think first, and again before you move/touch anything.

Jul-02-12  Abdel Irada: <lentil>:

You *can* mate with two bishops, but not if they're both on dark squares.

But if you really like setting yourself a challenge, you could promote the second pawn to a knight. Mating with ♗+♘ is grueling. I know this from experience, because I had to do it in my second-ever tournament game. Fortunately, my opponent had even less idea of how to defend against the ♗+♘ mate than I had of how to achieve it, so I finally won.

Jul-02-12  romni: I don't know how to post a diagram so I can only tell you...The starting position for the 'dance of the elephant' puzzle is :- White:Bd1,pg3,Ng4,Kd6,pd7,...Black:pc3,pe3,Bb4,p- c5,Ng5,Na6,ph6,Kh7
It is an amazing puzzle,very surprising with white to win..BTW the piece we call 'bishop' Russians call 'slon', which means 'elephant.
Jul-02-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Phony Benoni: <romni> You can learn how to insert diagrams at the FEN Help Page. For now, here's the position you described.


click for larger view

For the rest of us, here is a YouTube video giving the solution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laLK.... Suffice it to say it's a Double Sunday Puzzle.

Jul-03-12
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: I think the point about touch move not applying to promoted pieces is that the promoted piece may be hidden behind other pieces ... or even buried at the bottom of a pile of pieces still in the box.

Under FIDE rules, the move is completed only when the promoted piece touches the promotion square. So if you have to move a knight to get to a rook, you aren't forced to use the knight.

Jul-03-12  TheaN: Never heard of that composition to bear the name 'The dance of the elephant' though I like it. What was unknown for a long time however, was that the original composer was Dutch, though I forgot the name. I believe Krabbé also featured it.

Much of the history also seems to be faetured on Eduard Gufeld 's page, for being the first to show the problem at a chess event, with the famous Tal story to follow.

Jul-04-12  LoveThatJoker: Monday, July 2nd, 2012

<61...g1=R!>

(Obviously 61...g1=Q?? is Stalemate)

<62. Kh2 Rg4 63. Kh3 Rf4> 0-1 as Black will bring his K over to the Kingside and Checkmate White.

LTJ

Jul-16-12  romni: Thanks for that Phony Benoni!
Oct-20-20  f.alonso01: Pun suggestion: Rook to Cook
Aug-24-21  Saniyat24: so sorry Padron (father)...!
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