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Ted Barendse vs Magnus Carlsen
Corus Group C (2004), Wijk aan Zee NED, rd 11, Jan-23
Sicilian Defense: Dragon Variation. Yugoslav Attack (B78)  ·  0-1



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Given 8 times; par: 34 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
Jan-27-04  refutor: i know he's young and he's not a super GM and he'll probably change his opening selections 20 times, but i'm glad the dragon has a new champion :)
Jan-27-04  BiLL RobeRTiE: Yeah it's nice, but I think he could have won using almost anything vs. Barendse. I mean he scored what 0.5/12? =]
Jan-27-04  PinkPanther: 0.5/12....don't you mean 10.5/13?
Jan-27-04  BiLL RobeRTiE: nono i meant barendse scored 0.5/13, and is therefore much worse than carlsen; thus carlsen could beat him with anything, including the dragon!
Jan-28-04  MoonlitKnight: Carlsen has a photographic memory and plays any opening depending on his mood that day, but the dragon looks to be a new favourite of his.
Jan-28-04  PinkPanther: <Moonlitknight>
He doesn't have a photographic memory because in reality photographic memories don't exist. He simply posseses the ability to process and store information in fantastic ablility that most great chess players have.
Premium Chessgames Member
  technical draw: Sorry, <Pink>, but photographic memories do exist. PM is defined.."as the ability to process and store information in fantastic amounts..."
Jan-28-04  PinkPanther: <td>
Sorry, but no they don't. Being able to memorize great amounts of information is simply having a good has nothing to do with it being "photographic" or not.
Jan-28-04  MoonlitKnight: I read somewhere that photographic memory exists, but I seem to have forgotten where...
Premium Chessgames Member
  technical draw: <PP> Of course a photographic memory has nothing to do with "photographic"; but a person with "photographic" memory is someone that can perform astounding memory feats. It's somewhat like saying a person is a chess "genius". That has to do with his chess playing ability and not his I.Q.
Premium Chessgames Member
  technical draw: To add further. David Copperfield is a magician even if he really doesn't do "magic". A ventriloquist is still a ventriloquist even if he doesn't "really" speak with his stomach. As I have said before, language is meant to serve man, not the other way around.
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: Photographic memory has been attributed to Tal also. But I think memory has more to do with great concentration and interest than from any mechanical photographing in the mind. Otherwise a brilliant move and a crass blunder would be stored equally well.
Jan-28-04  MoonlitKnight: Memory has very much to do with natural talent. But there are also ways to train it so that it becomes better.
Jan-28-04  TrueFiendish: "As I have said before, language is meant to serve man, not the other way around." Yes, indeed, and the same word or phrase may mean different things in different contexts. So maybe here a "photographic memory" has "the ability to process and store information in fantastic amounts" rather than the ability to recall in perfect detail every visual image it chooses to retain...(can people do that?)
Jan-29-04  refutor: <photographic memory> does it or doesn't it exist? probably not but here's an article on it :)
Jan-29-04  bilikidder: <photographic memory> Here's another link to a thread discussing whether or not the "Elizabeth" case (about a woman who supposedly demonstrated an eidetic memory) was a hoax:

It would be interesting for people to research the photographic memory phenomena more thoroughly. Because of the difficulty in disproving a negative, I don't think it's logical for researchers to say it doesn't exist, only to say that they have not been able as yet to see the phenomena under laboratory conditions. Also, as indicated by the conversation between PP and TD, the phenomena has to be defined clearly as well.

So we are left with anecdotes telling us that photographic memories exist. Morphy was renowned for his extraordinary memory and had memorized the entire Louisiana Civil legal code. Tal reputedly had the ability to read a few pages of a book and later recite verbatim those pages. Fischer and many other chess players are known for their memory feats.

The phenomena of blindfold chess is an extraordinary display of memory (especially for those who perform simuls with it). I would be interested in knowing if those researchers who say that blindfold chess practitioners are unable to remember random, irrational chess positions had based their conclusions on study of run-of-the-mill blindfold practitioners or if they had ever really studied an extraordinary blindfold practitioner like Georges Koltanowski

Premium Chessgames Member
  technical draw: <bilikidder> I agree with you. Before any attempt to say that "photographic" memory exists or not, a definition of what PM is must be supplied. I was saying that in the "popular" sense of the word (an extraordinary or prodigious memory) PM exists.
Feb-07-04  Dick Brain: I think many top chessplayers do have prodigious memories at least for chess positions.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Benzol: Pillsbury, Alyekhin, Botvinnik, Tal and Fischer all possessed superb memories from what I've read.
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Because the white king is cut off he hasn't got a hope in the ending.
Jun-20-04  ConspTheory06: Well the king being out helps but thats not the real kicker black is up one pawn at the resignation and another will fall because he attacks both the F-pawn right now and after Rd3 the d pawn would fall.
Feb-03-05  dafish298: c3 seems to be an awful move by white
Premium Chessgames Member
  superuser171: Looking at the first kibitz by 'refutor' about how Carlsen isn't a 'super GM' (back in 2004).. funny how things changed
Oct-13-13  Everyone: <Everyone> has photographic memory; some just don't have the film.
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Everyone>: Used to have the film most all the time, but it disappears a lot these days.

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