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Garry Kasparov vs Mark J Hogarth
Belzberg Simul (2003) (exhibition), London ENG, Oct-20
Sicilian Defense: Canal Attack. Main Line (B52)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-13-03  Benjamin Lau: DB, I agree that Fischer is just a raving lunatic. See Kasparov vs J Wilson, 2003 Kasparov plays a 2300+ player in a simul, a recent one too.
Dec-13-03  Benjamin Lau: Kasparov vs Oral, 2001

Kasparov vs Movsesian, 2001

Dec-13-03  Benjamin Lau: Two other players- one is 2500+, the other is 2600+.
Dec-13-03  Dick Brain: The link is:

http://home.att.ne.jp/moon/fischer/...

But the information given here by Benjamin Lau refutes it.

Jan-09-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: Are you saying that http://home.att.ne.jp/moon/fischer/... is a hoax? A forged document? I seriously doubt it. That particular simul was not open to strong players, for whatever reason. Citing exceptions to this policy does not refute it; it just demonstrates that it's not always the case.
Jan-09-04  bilikidder: <Sneaky> It doesn't mean that the document on Fischer's website is a hoax. If you read the details, the idea is to allow AMATEURS a chance at Kasparov. Does that mean that Kasparov is afraid of playing higher level players in a simul? Clearly not as BL's link demonstrates that Kasparov has played higher level players in the same time frame. Kasparov has played strong national teams in the past as well. What is refuted is the implication that Fischer makes, that Kasparov only allows weak players in simuls.
Jan-09-04  Benjamin Lau: Whether the document was forged or not doesn't matter, the thing is that it's not true that Kasparov will only play people below 1900 as you claimed in the Fischer page:

"Kasparov ...has given or will soon more simuls than Fischer."

"Yeah but if you're rated over 1900 you're not allowed to participate."

This implies falsely that Kasparov doesn't play experts. The reality could not be any more different. Kasparov routinely plays entire national olympic teams in simuls. And you know this too- you said before this conversation that you were impressed by Kasparov's simuls.

From the GK page (Dec 18, 2003):

"I agree with refutor: Kasparov's simuls against strong players, especially his "clocked simuls" are the most impressive." - Sneaky

And what was it exactly that you agreed to?

" i find his simul wins v. all-GM olympic teams much more impressive."

This demonstrates that you knew Kasparov played strong players in simuls, yet you lied anyway on the Fischer page recently, with the random nonsense of how Kasparov only plays people below 1900. Are you sure that Fischer hasn't simply clouded your objectivity?

<Citing exceptions to this policy does not refute it; it just demonstrates that it's not always the case. >

In which case you have basically conceded you were completely wrong in your early assertion that he only plays people rated 1900 or below. Congratulations.

Even if Kasparov did sometimes plays only in simuls with 1900-, would this be all that bad? Surely Fischer did the same too, but with no complaints from anyone. And so long as it's not all Kasparov does, would it necessarily take away anything from him?

Jan-09-04  Benjamin Lau: <bilikidder>

Thanks, that's a point I forgot to mention- it's only 1900 and below so that patzers like Sneaky and me can play Kasparov. (No offense Sneaky ;-)

Jan-09-04  PinkPanther: That whole thing where Kasparov played against Movsesian and Oral was a simul against the Slovakian National Team or something like that. It was a simul, but he was only playing against a few players. If Kasparov played a player of that strength in a regular simul, I'd put my money on the other guy.
Jan-09-04  Benjamin Lau: The "few" you speak of are actually at least 8 I believe. The team was composed of a bunch of 2500+ and some 2600+ players and the simul was clocked.

http://www.64.net.cn/palview/Palvie...

Jan-09-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: <"Yeah but if you're rated over 1900 you're not allowed to participate." This implies falsely that Kasparov doesn't play experts.> I didn't mean to imply that; the link I provided means what it says: that on this particular date, at this particular event, Kasparov refused to play even strong A-class players. Was that the one and only time he ever enforced that rule? I have no idea, but probably not.

I have no doubt that Kasparov has performed some of the most amazing simul stunts in the history of chess. If a single player would be crowned the "king of simuls" Kasparov would have to be a nominee (along with Koltanowski, Pillsbury, and others.) But the incredible simuls that I have read about are all many years ago. I really haven't been following his recent simul feats, other than reading about he upset little schoolchildren by berating them for not resigning. If he's still giving the highclass simuls like he used to, that's great, and more power to him.

I don't buy the line that this is "to let weak players paricipate." Of course weak players can participate: they have a list, and the first so-many people who sign up get to play. Since when are weak players excluded?! Never! There's only one reason I can think of to explain why Kasparov did that: because he didn't really feel like giving a simul--he didn't feel up to it--so he made sure that he'd play a bunch of fish that he could beat without breaking a sweat. Why else?!

<Surely Fischer did the same too, but with no complaints from anyone.> I doubt that. What makes Fischer's document so shocking is that it's virtually unheard of to prohibit anybody from entering into a simul. I doubt you can find another instance of such a policy at a simul of any player of note. (At the same time it's considered very rude if a professional chess player shows up at another profession's simul to ruin his score.)

Jan-09-04  ughaibu: Why does Fischer have this at his site?
Jan-09-04  Benjamin Lau: <Since when are weak players excluded?! Never! There's only one reason I can think of to explain why Kasparov did that: because he didn't really feel like giving a simul--he didn't feel up to it--so he made sure that he'd play a bunch of fish that he could beat without breaking a sweat. Why else?!>

The reason is fairly simple actually. It's so that Kasparov can play *more* patzers. Of course rank amateurs will get to play him occasionally but usually the 2200+ crowd get more than their fair share. Anyway, Kasparov's last national olympic simul of note was in 2001, that's only 2 years ago. I doubt he would be suddenly unable to perform another 2 years later. His rating is hardly different so if he's in decline, it will still be a while before he shows it in a simul.

<What makes Fischer's document so shocking is that it's virtually unheard of to prohibit anybody from entering into a simul.>

I've actually heard of several other cases, but they all have good reasons like this one. I don't have an example on hand though so maybe I'll come back to this page once I remember. In either case, I found the letter perfectly reasonable and I think only someone as paranoid as Fischer would interpret it so poorly.

Jan-09-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: <Of course rank amateurs will get to play him occasionally but usually the 2200+ crowd get more than their fair share.> And why is that? Are 2200's more skilled at writing their names on the sign-up sheet? The simuls I've attended were filled with amateurs, little children, doddering old men, and every fish in between. I've never heard of weak players being crowded out of a simul by a mob of masters.

<I've actually heard of several other cases> That, I would like to hear about. If you're right then I'll learn something new.

Jan-09-04  Benjamin Lau: By the way Sneaky, ughaibu poses a good question. Why would Fischer have the letter?

<And why is that? Are 2200's more skilled at writing their names on the sign-up sheet? The simuls I've attended were filled with amateurs, little children, doddering old men, and every fish in between. I've never heard of weak players being crowded out of a simul by a mob of masters.>

Yeah, but have you necessarily attended simuls with Kasparov? I'm willing to bet they are going to be a little different. If an average IM comes to my area, few strong chess players I know will give a hoot. What happens is that mostly beginners will go. But when a weak GM or very high rated IM shows up, a ton of strong players I know immediately flock to the scene to sign up. This creates competition obviously. This has nothing to do with who has more skill in writing on the sign up. The more strong players present at the sign up, the more will end up in the simul. This is simple logic.

By the way, with regards to another comment you made "Stock brokers who don't even understand the castling rule!!", the stock brokers were actually surprisingly strong. Just from looking at their games, you can tell they know what they're doing. Some of them even look to be around 2200. I guess you were simply exaggerating / trying to be funny?

Jan-09-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: <Why would Fischer have the letter?> Well the reason reason--in my opinion--is that Fischer thinks Garry is a fraud and will do anything to discredit him. Nevertheless, it is indeed shocking that the highest rated player in the history of chess would impose restrictions on who can play him, and of all the places to draw the line he puts it at 1900, to ensure he only faces the weakest of the weak. It's downright bizarre if you ask me.
Jan-09-04  ughaibu: There was a high level occasion, maybe a candidates match, in which one of the players, I think it was Korchnoi, wandered over to the referee and asked "can I castle long if my QN1 is attacked?". It seems that in all his experience the situation had never come up so he wanted to be sure. The press was shocked but it just goes to show that strength doesn't necessarily imply full understanding of the rules, castling or otherwise.
Jan-09-04  Benjamin Lau: <downright bizarre if you ask me. >

Eh, I can see your point, but I think that you're just over thinking this. If you want to see a conspiracy, you will see a conspiracy. The possible reasons are infinte, and aren't limited to even what I suggested. Kasparov could have just played in a recent tournament for example, and not have had the energy to play a serious simul. Or maybe he was sick and didn't want to look weak.

Jan-09-04
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: Well, this whole conversation started when somebody on the Fischer page suggested that Kasparov has held more simuls than Fischer. I don't know if that's true or not, but I couldn't resist a snotty quip... =)
Jan-09-04  Spitecheck: I think Korchnoi's question referred to his rook being enprise and he was castling short. That was game 19 or 21 (?) in the 1974 Candidates Final match with Karpov.

Spitecheck

Jan-09-04  ughaibu: Spitecheck: Thanks for that, in that case I think it was Smyslov in the incident I (vaguely) remember.
Jan-09-04  PinkPanther: <The "few" you speak of are actually at least 8 I believe. The team was composed of a bunch of 2500+ and some 2600+ players and the simul was clocked.>

I know that, I was just trying to point out that these guys didn't just show up to some normal simul and get blown off the board after only a second or two of thought by Kasparov for each of his moves.

Jan-09-04  Spitecheck: I'm sure Kasparov is happy to play just about anybody if he has had time to prepare against them. Looking through one or two games might even be enough preparation against 2400 players for instance. Token glory in simul...

Spitecheck

Aug-17-05  Anna Wrekzia: Another weakie crushed.
Aug-17-05  ThomYorke: It´s well known that Fischer is the first to run away when he have to play against someone stronger than him. In the past everything was ok to him, but now he´d better stay home. Nowadays, even if Fischer were in his prime he would be an ordinary player while Kasparov is the best ever.
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