Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Wiesel vs Weigel
corr (1923) (correspondence)
Scandinavian Defense: Main Lines (B01)  ·  1-0



explore this opening
find similar games 3 more games of Weigel
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Some games have annotation. These are denoted in the game list with the icon.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Black will lose either rook or queen,after the text,the queen will fall.
Premium Chessgames Member
  doubledrooks: I saw 8. Nd5, but after 8...Qc5 9. d4 Qd6 10. Bf4 Qe6+ 11. Kf1 O-O-O it seemed to me that Black could fight on.

So I went with 9. Nxc7+ Kd8 10. Bxc6 Kxc7 11. Bxb7 Qe5+ 12. Qe4, winning two pawns.

Dec-18-12  mworld: <gofer> thank you for your post, I appreciate the thought provoking comments although I don't know the answer.
Dec-18-12  M.Hassan: "Easy"
White to play 8.?

<if...Qxb5 9.Nxc7+ and Queen is lost>

8...........Qa5 guarding square c7
Queen will have no square to escape and has to capture the Bishop 9...........Qxb5
10.Nc7+ Kd8
will be like the above case.

Dec-18-12  James D Flynn: Material is equal and neither side has completed its development, however, White to move has the immediate threat 8.Nd5 attacking the Black Q and the pawn on c7. 8.Nd5 Qc5(if Qa5 9.b4 wins the Q for a B) 9.d4 Qxc2 10.Nxc7+ Kd7 11.Bf4 Rd8(if Rb8 12.Rd1+ Kc8 13.Ne6 fxe6 14.Qe3 Qf5 15.g4 Qg6 16.Qe5 and Black can only postpone the mate on c7 for a move by sacrificing the Q by 16.Qe4+ Qxe4) 12.Rc1 Qxb2 13.Bxc3+ bxc6 14.Qxc6+ Kc8 15.Na6#
Dec-18-12  erniecohen: Exactly why is this game in the DB?
Dec-18-12  MountainMatt: <PawnSac: Easy one..
White Wiesels (weasles) out a win with Nd5 Qa5 b4! and black can't Weigel (wiggle) his queen out of danger! (but Qc5 is better)>

You took the wiggly, weasley words right outta my mouth.

Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: <<Dec-18-12 TheoNov: <LMAJ, whiteshark, Bartimaeus> After 8. .. Qc5, both 9. b4/d4 are answered by 9. .. Qd6. The straightforward 9. Nxc7+ is correct.>>

Not to be mean, but UR are simply wrong. (Look at it with an engine ...)

Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: 9.NxP/c7+??, QxN
Premium Chessgames Member
  LIFE Master AJ: And the Queen cannot get from a5 to d6 ... not in one move.
Dec-18-12  Kikoman: 1. <Nd5!> Qc5 (Qa5?? 2. b4 and the Black's Queen is trap, Qd4? 2. Bxc6+ bxc6 3. Nxc7+ and White winning the exchange and gains a mere of pawn) 2. d4! Qd6 (Qxc2/Qxd4 3. Nxc7+) 3. Bf4 and that's it!


Dec-18-12  stst: The point is to let Nxc7 forking the R (or, Q too,depending on how B's Q moves.) B can only avoid this is to keep it's Q on the a5-d8 diag, thus: 8.Nd5 Qa5
Now W can disturb this by
9.b4, and B can only take it, or takes the Bishop to save herself, any way W goes as planned: 10.Nxc7+ forks the R.
Dec-18-12  stst: analyses without a sight, it turns out exactly as "planned." ~ Monday / Tuesday material, goodee...
Dec-18-12  bachbeet: I saw Nd5 and also b4. But I thought b4 wouldn't get much because I thought the black knight could simply take it. I forgot about the bishop pin.
Dec-18-12  thegoldenband: Several people have listed the line 8. Nd5 Qc5 9. d4 Qd6 10. Bf4 e5 as if it's good for Black, but 11. Bxe5 looks completely crushing to me -- have folks been overlooking the pin on the c6-knight? And surely 10...Qe6+ is better, with the idea of 11...O-O-O?
Dec-18-12  Helloween: I got 8.Nd5 Qc5 9.Nxc7+ Kd8 10.Bxc6 Kxc7 11.Bxb7 Qe5+ 12.Qe4 Qxe4+ 13.Bxe4 Rd8, a pair of Bishops and 2 extra QS pawns- a lost cause, but certainly worth playing on for players of this caliber...but then I realized 8...Qc5 9.d4! Qd6 10.Bf4 Qe6+ 11.Ne3! and White's position(threatening d5) is absolutely crushing. There was certainly more to this puzzle than the average Tuesday!!
Dec-18-12  Helloween: p.s: To those who said "easy one" and didn't work out the complications, shame on you for your shortsightedness.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: I wish I saw the knight being pinned.
Dec-18-12  TheFocus: Weasel vs. Wiggle?
Dec-18-12  DarthStapler: I picked Nf6+ followed by Bxc6+ instead
Dec-19-12  TheoNov: < LIFE Master AJ: <<Dec-18-12 TheoNov: <LMAJ, whiteshark, Bartimaeus> After 8. .. Qc5, both 9. b4/d4 are answered by 9. .. Qd6. The straightforward 9. Nxc7+ is correct.>> Not to be mean, but UR are simply wrong. (Look at it with an engine ...)>

I did, of course. Naturally, after the text <8...Qa5>, b4 wins the Q, as we all understand. If you read my post more carefully, I said <After 8...Qc5>, 9.b4 and 9.d4 are both suboptimal moves (although 9.d4 is not bad), and 9. Nxc7+ is best.

<LIFE Master AJ: 9.NxP/c7+??, QxN >

<LIFE Master AJ: And the Queen cannot get from a5 to d6 ... not in one move.>

Again, misunderstandings based on the foregoing.

Dec-19-12  whiteshark: I really feel a bit sheepish about it... :D
Dec-19-12  thegoldenband: <TheoNov>, could you elaborate on your assessment of 9. d4? Specifically, how do you evaluate <Helloween>'s line 8...Qc5 9. d4! Qd6 10. Bf4 Qe6+ 11. Ne3, which looks quite good for White, vs. your best line after 9. Nxc7?
Dec-19-12  TheoNov: < thegoldenband: how do you evaluate <Helloween>'s line 8...Qc5 9. d4! Qd6 10. Bf4 Qe6+ 11. Ne3, which looks quite good for White, vs. your best line after 9. Nxc7? >

I agree that <Helloween>'s 9.d4 is winning for White, but 9.Nxc7 is even more convincing. Splitting hairs perhaps.

My best lines are after 8. .. Qc5 are:

<For 9. Nxc7+>

9. .. Kd8 and then 10. d4! (now this move is even more effective)

A) 10. .. Qxd4 11. Bf4 e5 12. Rd1 Qxd1+ 13. Kxd1 Kxc7 14. Bxc6 Rd8+ 15. Kc1 bxc6 16. Bxe5+ Kb6 17. Qb3+ Ka6 18. Re1 Nf6 19. Bxf6 gxf6 20. Re4 Bh6+ 21. f4

click for larger view

B) 10. ..Nxd4 11. Qxb7 Nxb5 12. Nxb5 Qc8 13. Qd5+ Ke8 14. Bf4 e6 15. Qxa8

click for larger view

<For the immediate 9. d4>

9. .. Qd6 10. Bf4 Qe6+ 11. Ne3
Qf6 12. O-O-O (12. Nd5 Qe6+) 12. .. O-O-O 13. Ng4 Qf5 14. Bxc6 bxc6 15. Ne5 Rd6 16. g4 Qf6 17. g5 Qe6 18. Qa3 Kb7 19. Rd3 Rd5 20. Qa4

click for larger view

Also overwhelmingly winning, but I prefer the material surplus that the 9.Nxc7 lines offer. That's all.


Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: As to <erniecohen>'s remarks, the old acronym WYSIWIG may be a propos, given the opponents' names: what you see is what you get.
Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CORRESPONDENCE. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
shakman's favorite games - 3
by shakman
Short games
by magnetic31415
9 moves
from Chess Miniatures, Collection I by wwall
Trap Collection
by ChessDude33
by JulioGuzman
nd5 = queen loss
from Opening Traps and Miniatures by biohaz
where the black queen is out at the start, how to reply back .
from very common game - very highly highly important by saif1980
My miniatures II
by ruvin21
from Karpov Right Plan by cgrob
8.? (December 18, 2012)
from Tuesday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
from Karpov Right Plan by GregoryBattis
8.? (Tuesday, December 18)
from Puzzle of the Day 2012 by Phony Benoni
Scandinavian Opening
from mitto's favorite games by mitto
by akatombo
Center Counter 3...Qa5 Trap fighting for c7
from yw 10 Take Ten Steps Gentlemen, Turn and Fire! by fredthebear
Fighting for a square
by Puente de Lucena
by wwm
Center Counter 3...Qa5 (B01) 1-0 Q trap fighting for c7 square
from KP More Minis - Save by fredthebear
Scandinavian: Main lines
from MKD's Favourite Games by MKD

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2023, Chessgames Services LLC