| Mar-27-04 | | suenteus po 147: All right! Not too bad. I got this one! Rook takes the pesky knight on d3. I admit, I didn't see 17...Bg5, or any of the continuation (heck, i'm not what anyone would call a good player), but the rook sac against the knight made a lot of sense. Nice to be confirmed once in a while :) |
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| Mar-27-04 | | iron maiden: Exchange sac on c3: vital part of any Sicilian player's repertoire. As a Sicilian fanatic, I'm a bit ashamed that I didn't see it quicker. |
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Mar-27-04
 | | tpstar: White runs with scissors grabbing 2 Pawns while castling Queenside in the Sicilian. I think 16. Na4 Qb5 17. b3 was forced. |
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| Mar-27-04 | | kevin86: This is just another case where white "castled into it". Greed and bad judgment are bad partners. |
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| Mar-27-04 | | karlzen: <iron maiden>, this wasn't the ordinary Sicilian c3 sac, it was Rxd3 and in quite different cirumstances than usually, so don't be ashamed! :) White was a bit too greedy in this game. In the position just before the sac (and a3??), black threatens Bc4 and c6-c5-c4 among other stuff. I think his best move may be 16.h4 to cover g5 and also getting the possibility of Rh1-h3 defending along the third rank. 16...Bc4 17.Rh3 Be6 18.Rh1 is just a draw but 16...Qa6 17.Kb1 Rxb2+!? 18.Nxd2 (18.Kxd2?? Qa3+ 19.Ka1 Bf6) 18...Rxd2 is interesting and probably quite good for black. My conclusion would be that white is struggling after 11.Qxd6? and that black has at least equalised after 10...Be6! 10.Nd5 is probably better but then white will have to give up the plans of attacking the black king (and long castle). This is a good example of where the standard concept of Qxd4 and 0-0-0 doesn't work. Black played very good. |
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| Mar-27-04 | | Egghead: The move order is important. 16. ... Bg5 17.Qxg5 Rxd3 18.Rxd3 Qxb2+ 19.Kd2 goes nowhere. |
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| Mar-27-04 | | karlzen: <tpstar>, I don't believe in your variation. 16.Na4?! Qb5 (Qa6! looks better) 17.b3?? (17.Nc3) Qxa4!! 18.bxa4 Ba3+ 19.Nb2 Bxb2+ 20.Kb1 Rxd2 21.Rxb2 Bc3+ 22.Kc1 Bxa2 23.Kd1 Bc4 24.Kc1 Bb2+ 25.Kd1 Bf6 (to protect d8) 26.Kc1 Ba2 winning material. |
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| Mar-27-04 | | euripides: 17 Qxd3 ismuch tougher. 17... Bg5+ 18 f4 (or Rd2 Qxb2+ 19 Kd1 Qa1+ winning the h1 rook - after f4 this idea won't work because White mates with Qd8+ at the end) Bxf4 19 Rd2 Bxd2+ 20 Qxd2 (or Kxd2 Rd8) Qxb2+ 21 Kd1 Bg4+ 22 Ke1 Qa1+ 23 Nd1 Qxd1+ 24 Qxd1 Bxd1 25 Kxd1 Rb1+ wins the rook. There may be a quicker win but it's not trivial. |
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| Mar-27-04 | | karlzen: <euripides>, In your vatiation, 21...Qa1+ is stronger since after 21...Bg4 22.Ke1 Qa1+ white had (the relatively better) 23.Kf2 Qxh1 24.Qf4 winning back a piece. I wouldn't exactly call 17.Qxd3 "much better" it's trivial for a quy of Ufimtsev's strength to hand in the full point. |
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| Mar-27-04 | | alphee: There are not that many people that play this "hungarian variation" with 4. Qxd4. Almost everybody seems to stick to Cxd4 whatever the move number is. The first time I saw it extensively used/studied (for White) was by Chris Baker in "A sartling chess openning repertoire - cadogan". Any good reason for that rarity? |
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| Mar-27-04 | | alphee: <karlzen> I think what you call d2 in this variation <16...Qa6 17.Kb1 Rxb2+!? 18.Nxd2 (18.Kxd2?? Qa3+ 19.Ka1 Bf6) 18...Rxd2 > may well be b2 some times and 19.Ka1 seems to me impossibe if Qa3+. The way I see it looks like: 16...♕a6 17.♔b1 ♖xb2+!? 18.♘xb2 (18.♔xb2?? ♕xa3+ 19."???" "???") 18...♖xd2 :+) |
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| Mar-27-04 | | PAWNTOEFOUR: i looked at that for a very long time,and i couldn't see a thing,and the big problem was there's nothin else to take but the knight!....ah,well |
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Mar-27-04
| | tpstar: Karlzen, wow, 17 ... Qxa4!! is phenomenal! Thank you for your clear refutation and your incisive analysis. What should White have played? |
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| Mar-27-04 | | John Doe: I got this one pretty fast, but I was lucky. I noticed the pin on the queen first and that the knight could interpose. So I looked at what happened when I took the knight. The pin still doesn't work but if the queen takes the unprotected bishop, it's mate on b2. Despite what you may say, I think chess has a lot to do with luck. |
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| Mar-28-04 | | karlzen: <alphee>, apart from Baker I know that Pete Tamburro had a couple of lectures on it over at chess.fm a while ago. Quite good stuff actually. I suppose the reason why Qxd4 is not played so often is that it's illogical (don't move the queen in the opening) and also white has to give up the bishop-pair very early (Bxc6). However, strong players such as Judit Polgar have used it successfully I believe. Yes, I meant b2 and not d2 of course, however I don't see why Ka1 is not physically possible? <tpstar>, see my first post on the game, second half. |
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| Mar-28-04 | | alphee: <karlzen> If the King takes the rook on b2 with 18:♔xb2 and the a6 queen goes on a3+, then the king moving on a1 is still under the check from the queen as the a2 square is free. Of course I consider that white played 16.a3 as in the game. |
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| Mar-28-04 | | karlzen: <alphee>, you appear to have missed my 16.h4 two rows above my first analysis of Qa6 and so on. Perhaps it was unclear that I was referring to h4. :) |
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| Mar-28-04 | | alphee: <karlzen> true, I missed that one ! |
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| Mar-30-04 | | euripides: <karlzen> I agree your 21... Qa1+ iss an improvement. INcidentally after 17Qxd3 Qxb2+ 18 Kd2 Rd8 19 Nd5 White fights on e.g. 19...cd 20 Ke2 d4 ! is good for Black but less good than 17...Bg4+: or 20...Qxa3 21 Qxa3 Bxa3 22 Rd3 Be7 23 Rhd1 and White will win the d pawn though I think Black should till win. Anyway I don't think the winning line for Black is trivial, though it's easy enough to guess Black is better. |
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| Mar-31-04 | | karlzen: <euripides>,
Some improvements:
17.Qxd3 Qxb2+ 18 Kd2 Rd8 19 Nd5 cd 20 Ke2 Qxa3 21 Qxa3 Bxa3 22 Rd3 Bc5! (so black can play d4 if white tries to get the d-pawn). Even better is 20...Rc8! 21.Rd2 dxe4 22.Qxe4 Qb5+ 23.Ke3 (23.Ke1 Re8!) 23...Rc3+ 24.Rd3 Qc5+ 25.Qd4 Rxd3+ 26.Kxd3 Bf5+ 27.Ke3 Bg5+ and black wins the queen. |
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| Apr-01-04 | | euripides: <karlzen>. I agree that 22...Bc5 is an improvement. 20...Rc8 might be met by 21 ed Rxc2+ 22 Rd2 (not 22 Ke1 Bg3 23 f3 Rxg2 24 Qe3 Bh4+) when it's bad for White but may be better than the alternatives. So 17... Bg5 may still be Black's best line. |
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| Apr-02-04 | | karlzen: <euripides>, 17...Bg5 is definintely black's simplest line to win the game, and that's all we want isn't it? 20...Rc8 21.ed Rxc2+ 22.Rd2 Qe5+ 23.Kd1 Rxd2+ 24.Qxd2 Bxd5 and without the rook there's not much white can do about the bishop-pair I'm afraid, it'll be over in 5 moves. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 16...Rxd3