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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Sep-17-17 | | RandomVisitor: 18.Kg2 is better for white. |
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| Sep-17-17 | | ChessHigherCat: I overlooked the trickiest line, but I think this wins, too: 23. Kg2 Rce8 24. Rf1 d4 25. Qf2 R8e7 26. Qf4 dxc3 27. Bxc3 Bc7 28. Qg4 Bxf1+ 29. Rxf1 f5 30. Rxf5 Rxc3 31. Qb4 Rce3 32. Qc4+ R7e6 33. Rc5 Re4 34. Qc3 Bb6 35. Rxc6 Re2+ 36. Kf1 Rf2+ 37. Kg1 Rxc6 38. Qxc6 Rc2+ 39. Qxb6 axb6 |
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| Sep-17-17 | | ChessHigherCat: I overlooked the trickiest subvariant, but I think this wins, too: [19. Bf3 Nxe3 20. fxe3 Qxe3+ 21. Kg2 Qxf3+ 22. Kxf3 (22. Kh3 Re5) Re3+]
23. Kg2 Rce8 24. Rf1 d4 25. Qf2 R8e7 26. Qf4 dxc3 27. Bxc3 Bc7 28. Qg4 Bxf1+ 29. Rxf1 f5 30. Rxf5 Rxc3 31. Qb4 Rce3 32. Qc4+ R7e6 33. Rc5 Re4 34. Qc3 Bb6 35. Rxc6 Re2+ 36. Kf1 Rf2+ 37. Kg1 Rxc6 38. Qxc6 Rc2+ 39. Qxb6 axb6 |
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| Sep-17-17 | | Altairvega: Okay I see the analysis of ChessHigherCat now. Thank you!! |
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| Sep-17-17 | | NBZ: <Altairvega> The problem with Nxe3 is that it does not draw out the king like Nxf2 does. After 19. ... Nxe3 20. fxe3 if Black tries 20. ... Qh3 then simply 21. Kh1 or 21. Bg2 and White is safe. And 19. ... Nxe3 20. fxe3 Qxe3+ 21. Kg2 and there is no good way for Black to continue the attack. The beauty of 19. ... Nxf2! 20. Kxf2 Qh3! is that it makes sure the White king can never turn back: if 21. Kg1 then Black can play 21. ... Rxe3! winning. (But not 21. ... Bxe3+? 22. Kh1 followed by Qg2 repels the attack). |
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| Sep-17-17 | | NBZ: <ChessHigherCat> It looks to me like after 19. Bf3 Nxe3 20. fxe3 Qxe3+ 21. Kg2 Qxf3+ 22. Kxf3 Re3+ 23. Kg2 Rce8 Black is a whole queen down for rather limited compensation. I would be very surprised if White isn't completely winning. For example: 24. Qd2 d4 25. Re1 is one safe way to give back a piece while neutralizing Black's initiative. |
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| Sep-17-17 | | Walter Glattke: White cannot guard Pe3 and Ph2 at the same time, game breaks together. |
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| Sep-17-17 | | ChessHigherCat: <NBZ> Yeah, that's the trickiest variant that I overlooked in my first post, otherwise I would have looked at Nxf2 instead, which is what I thought of first. Still, even that line has some interesting complications: 24. Qd2 d4 25. Re1 c5 26. Rxe3 dxe3 27. Qd7 Rd8 28. Qe7 Rd2+ 29. Kf3 Rf2+ 30. Kxe3 c4+ 31. Ke4 f5+ 32. Kd5 Rd2+ 33. Kc6 |
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| Sep-17-17 | | leRevenant: Decimation Row |
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Sep-17-17
 | | al wazir: Surely 23...dxe5 is a faster win. If, e.g., 24. Qxc8 (24. Qd2 Rd3), then 24...Bxc8 25. Rxd5 (25. Rd2 Qxg3+ 26. Kf1 Ba6+ 27. Kg1 Rf1#) Qxd3+ 26. Kf1 Re1+ 27. Rxe1 Qf2#. |
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| Sep-17-17 | | ChessHigherCat: <leRevenant: Decimation Row> Careful, don't let anyone know you're a Dylan fan or you'll be pegged as a "liberal" by the keen political scientists in our midst :-) |
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| Sep-17-17 | | gofer: I got the first couple of moves, but couldn't see a defence against the following simple variation... <19 ... Nxf2>
<20 Kxf2 Qh3!>
White must protect against Rxe3 setting up a discovered check with either Rxc3+ or Re2++ either way
white will be ripped apart, so white has no choice but to defend the Pe3. 21 Bg2 Qxh2
22 Rh1? Rxe3!
23 Rxh2 Rxf3+ -+
21 Re1 Qxh2+
22 Bg2 Qh6
23 Na4 Bxe3+ -+
~~~
Hmmm, I didn't see <21 Rd4>. What is the best defence for white?? Anyone?! |
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| Sep-17-17 | | Cheapo by the Dozen: I got the first two moves by the path:
1. Sacrifices at e3 or f2 could tear White's position open. 2. However, it was tough to reach mate because it was tough to attack a king on g2. The only antidote I could find was the second game move, to prevent White's king from getting to g2 in the first place. 3. After the first two moves, White has to do something about the threat at e3. This leaves Black time for Qxh2. The g-pawn will soon fall thereafter in most lines. So that's 3 pawns for the piece plus a lively attack. What I didn't even consider, however, was Rd4 as the way to shore up e3. |
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| Sep-17-17 | | morfishine: <19...Nxf2> |
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| Sep-17-17 | | patzer2: For a White improvement, instead of the natural looking 18. Bg2? allowing 18...Ng4! ∓ (-0.90 @ 32 depth,) Stockfish 8 recommends the odd looking 18. Kg2! = to ⩲ (+0.23 @ 32 depth.) |
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| Sep-17-17 | | malt: Have 19...N:f2 20.K:f2 (20.Q:f2?? B:e3)
19...Q:e3+ 20.Kg2 Blacks attack stalls
19...Qh3! 20.Bg2 B:e3+ 21.Kf3 Qh5+
22.g4 Q:h2 23.Qf5 Re5 |
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| Sep-17-17 | | flokahn: In the played line, Taimanov missed the much better move 27...Bc7+, which leads to mate in 7: 28. Qf4 Qh4+! 29. Kg1 Bxf4 30. Rxf4 Qxf4 31. Kh1 Rc2 32. Be5 Qf2 33. Bh3 Rc1+ 34. Bf1 Rxf1#
On the other hand, after 19...Nxf2, a better defense for white seems to be 20.Re1 (20...Nd3 21.Kg2 Bxe3 22.Be4 Nxe1 23.Rxe1 dxe4 ...).Black also wins, but a bit harder.
(analysed using Deep Shredder 12 UCI) |
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Sep-17-17
 | | scormus: <flokahn> yes, remarkable he didn't see 27 .... Bc7+! which is so immediately crushing, even if though he might not have seen in through to mate. And a shame that such a brilliant lead up wasn't followed by the natural finishing touch. |
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Sep-17-17
 | | beenthere240: I don't think too many people confuse Dylan with liberal politics anymore. |
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| Sep-17-17 | | ChessHigherCat: <beenthere240: I don't think too many people confuse Dylan with liberal politics anymore.> I won't mention any names but according to one recent kibbitz the mere fact that Timman said he liked Bob Dylan was supposed to be proof positive that T. was a socialist. That said, I don't know what his politics are anymore. I don't follow him anymore because he stopped making good music 30 years ago. |
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Sep-17-17
 | | perfidious: Hail, man, Ah'm not a big Dylan fan and get scorned for mah leff leaning views alla tahm. |
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| Sep-17-17 | | RandomVisitor: After 18.Kg2 white avoids tactical complications by quickly exchanging two pieces and blunting black's emergent attack.
click for larger viewStockfish_17091212_x64_modern - AMD FX-8370 8-core 4.21 GHz TB6: <9.3 hours computer time> +0.08/58 18...Ne4 19.Nxe4 dxe4 20.Be2 Bxe2 21.Qxe2 Qf5 22.h3 h5 23.Rac1 c5 24.Rd6 Red8 25.Rcd1 Bc7 26.R6d2 Rxd2 27.Rxd2 Rd8 28.Rxd8+ Bxd8 29.Qd1 Be7 30.g4 hxg4 31.Qxg4 Qxg4+ 32.hxg4 f6 33.f3 exf3+ 34.Kxf3 Kf7 35.Bc3 Kg6 36.e4 Bd6 37.Bd2 Kf7 38.g5 Be5 39.Kg4 Ke6 40.gxf6 Bxf6 41.Kf4 Bd4 42.Kf3 Bf6 43.Be3 Bd4 44.Bf4 Be5 45.Bg5 Bd4 46.a4 g6 47.Bf4 Be5 48.Bd2 Bf6 49.Kg4 Ke5 50.Be3 Kxe4 51.Bxc5 |
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Sep-17-17
 | | PawnSac: 19. ..Nxf2!
< A Tame Enough combination > |
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| Sep-17-17 | | leRevenant: <ChessHigherCat: <beenthere240: I don't think too many people confuse Dylan with liberal politics anymore.>>
I was a huge BD fan in the 1960s but one can overdose on / tire of ANYTHING. |
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| Sep-18-17 | | WorstPlayerEver: <I won't mention any names but according to one recent kibbitz the mere fact that Timman said he liked Bob Dylan was supposed to be proof positive that T. was a socialist.> <ChessHigherCat> With the restriction that 'socialism' nowadays seems to be an occupation (they need to do something) of the extremely rich. Or their vassals like Timman. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 19...Nxf2