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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Dec-04-10 | | lost in space: Nothing for me today. Tried to make 20. Nxe6 work without success. Nether thought about 20. Ng6 |
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| Dec-04-10 | | JohnBoy: <M.Hassan ... 20.Qd3 Bb5(forced)> Why is 20...Bb5 forced? What is wrong with 20...Rxd4? |
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| Dec-04-10 | | David2009: L Hazai vs Szabo, 1983 White 20? In this competitive tacticl position, White has a shot 20 Ng6! (seeing that 20 Nxe6 [hoping for fxe6] fails to Bxe6). Variations: (A) ...fxg6 21 Qd3 picks up the exchange because of the mate threat 22 Qxg6+ Ke7 23 Qf7# (B) ...Bxd4 and there are two replies (B1) 21 Qf4 and (B2) 21 Qf3 Analyse both:
(B1 and B2) 21...Qc8 22 Qxf7+ Kd8 22 NxRh8 wins the exchange safely;
(B11) 21 Qf4 f6 or f5 22 Nxh8 Bb5 (the Bd4 is attacked twice) looks OK for Black ;
(B12) 21 Qf4 f6 or f5 22 Rxd4 Rxd4 23 Qxd4 Rg8 24 Rd1 and Black looks tied up but has Kf7 attacking the Ng6
(B21) 21 Qf3 f6 or f5 22 Nxh8 White is the exchange up and 22...Bb5 has less sting (Qh5+ with Rf4 a possible follow-up) (C) ...Rxd4 21 Rxd4 Bxd4 22 Qf4 or perhaps Qf3 (analyse when/if Black plays this sequence- both look good).
Conclusion: we play Ng6 and think in Black's time. Time to
check:
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Black chose defence (C) and I am lucky - I had missed 21...fxg6 garnering Black two pieces for a Rook, but the game shows White has an OTB refutation. Crafty End Game Trainer check of the puzzle position:
click for larger view L Hazai vs Szabo, 1983 White 20?
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
Crafty EGT follows the game line with a marginal improvement but drifts into a lost R&P and then K&P ending. Over to you to polish the ending off! You are white in the puzzle position (link above), drag and drop the move you want to make. |
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| Dec-04-10 | | howlwolf: The first thing I saw was 20 Qf3 and that black couldn't take because 21Ng6 smites him and black has no defense to the mating threats on f7. Problem with that is black could castle and get out of his problems. So then Ng6 to keep him from castling was pretty easy to find and allows white to exploit f7 weakness. I dismissed 20 Nxe6 pretty quickly because of the pin on the d4 knight. I had a couple of misses last week but so far so good. Bring on Sunday. |
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| Dec-04-10 | | JG27Pyth: Above my pay-grade. |
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| Dec-04-10 | | WhiteRook48: i tried nfxe6 |
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| Dec-04-10 | | kevin86: I saw the solution was not defensive play,but a quick attack. Ng6 was the most obvious-it forbids castling and opens up the adverse side. |
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| Dec-04-10 | | KingG: I saw 20.Ng6, and a few of the lines, but missed the one played in the game. |
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| Dec-04-10 | | xombie: Ng6 is clear enough. But I didn't see what to do after 21. Bxd4, and fxg6, which upon closer examination seems to lead to similar lines as in the actual game. Too much work though! |
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Dec-04-10
 | | Jimfromprovidence: I loved this puzzle. There’s such great board vision by white. 20 Ng6 was fantastic, attacking the rook just in time to prevent black from castling, as pointed out by <howlwolf>. White also knew that after 20…fxg6 white wins black’s rook and attacks the bishop, because black has to deal immediately with the mate threat after 21 Qd3. I also liked the subtle 22 Qe4 (as opposed to 22 Qg3. 22 Qg3 poses the same mate threat but allows the black queen to intervene with 22…Qg5). The line I’m having a lot of difficulty with is after 22…Qc7!?, below, instead of the text 22…Qe7. 
click for larger viewHere white cannot play 23 Rxd7 as in the text, because black simply takes back with the king (which he cannot do with the queen on e7). I’m not sure what the winning plan is in this scenario. |
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Dec-04-10
 | | scormus: I'm not doing very well with this one. Tried variuos combos saccing N, Q and none of them have worked unless B blunders. So I'll go for 20. Nh5 and get a modest advantage whether B castles or exchanged on d4. Basically, I've been defeated today. |
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Dec-04-10
| | scormus: Nowhere near. <Jim> sums it up perfectly. So many possibilitlies along the ways, a very rich pouzzle. It will be interesting to check if there was an adequate defence. Have to get the engine on it, too much for scormus' brain. BTW, its not Sunday already is it? |
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Dec-04-10
 | | doubledrooks: <KingG> wrote: <I saw 20.Ng6, and a few of the lines, but missed the one played in the game.> Ditto. For example:
a. 20...Rxd4 21. Rxd4 Bxd4 22. Qf3 f5 23. Nxh8 
b. 20...fxg6 21. Qd3 Bb5 22. Qxg6+ Kd7 ( Ke7 23. Qf7#) 23. Nxb5+ Kc6 24. Rxd8 Rxd8 25. Nd6 c. 20...Rg8 21. Qf3 f5 22. Nxe6 Bxe6 23. Rxd8+ Kxd8 with advantage to white. |
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Dec-04-10
 | | agb2002: White has two knights for the bishop pair.
Black's rooks are defenseless and his king remains in the center. These details suggest 20.Ng6: A) 20... fxg6 21.Qd3
A.1) 21... Rxd4 22.Qxg6+ Ke7 23.Qf7#.
A.2) 21... Bb5 22.Qxg6+ Kd7 23.Nxb5+ is a massacre.
A.3) 21... Qe7 22.Qxg6+ Kd8 23.Nc6+ and 24.Nxe7 + -.
B) 20... Rg8 21.Qf3
B.1) 21... f5 22.Nxe6
B.1.a) 22... Qb6 23.Qa8+ Kf7 24.Rxd7+ Kxg6 25.Qxg8 + -. B.1.b) 22... Qb8 23.Nxc5 Rxc5 24.Qb3 + -.
B.1.c) 22... Qc8 23.Nef4 with an extra pawn and multiple threats Qd5, Qh5, e6, etc. B.2) 21... f6 looks similar to B.1.
C) 20... Rh7 21.Qf3 seems to be even worse for Black than B. D) 20... Bxd4 21.Rxd4 Rxd4 22.Nxh8 Rd5 23.Nxf7 followed by Nd6 looks overwhelming. E) 20... Rxd4 21.Rxd4 Bxd4 22.Qf4 f5 23.Nxh8 + -.
Other moves seem to fail. For example, 20.Nfxe6 Bxe6 21.Nxe6 Qxd1+ 22.Rxd1 Bxe3 23.Rd8+ Ke7 24.Rxh8 Kxe6 - +. |
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| Dec-04-10 | | knight knight: Ok, the square e6 is surely the key to this puzzle. Also the rook on c4 is short of squares, but 20. b3 Rc3/xd4 solves the problem, and this capture threat of 20...B/Rxd4 suggests swift action. If 20. Ndxe6 Bxe3 21. Nxd8 Rxf4 white is material down. So let's check out 20. Nfxe6, a) 20...Bxd4 21. Nxd4 pawn ahead
b) 20...Qc8 (or other queen moves) 21. Nxc5 Rxc5 white pawn ahead c) 20...fxe6 21. Qh3! (mate-in-three threat) g6 (21...Rf8 22. Nxe6 Rxf1 23. Rxf1 Qe7 24. Qh5+ mating) 22. Nxe6 Qe7 23. Nc7+ Kd8 24. Nxa6 three pawns for the piece + strong attack d) 20...Bxe6 21. Nc6! Qc7 (21...Bxe3?? 22. Rxd8#, or 21...Qxd1+ 22. Rxd1 Be7 23. Qd3 winning) 22. Qf3 Be7 hmmm there's also 22...O-O, I'm stuck on this line Bit hungover today, let's see what happened |
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| Dec-04-10 | | David2009: <Jim> has come up with a characteristically interesting defence 22...Qc7 which was played neither in the game, nor by Crafty End Game Trainer (which prefers the game line 22...Qe7: see my previous post L Hazai vs Szabo, 1983). I input <Jim>'s position
click for larger view (L Hazai vs Szabo, 1983 <Jim> White 23?)
into the EGT to see how I got on using the following link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
and was not able to find a win in a reasonable time: so I gave up and tried defending <Jim>'s position colours reversed. The EGT finds 23 Rd3! keeping up the pressure. Playing itself the EGT continues 23...Kd8!? allowing a straightforward win on material: 24 Rf7 Be7 25 Qa8+ etc. The natural defensive move is 23...Rf8 which fails to 24.Qxg6+ Kd8 25.Rxf8+ Bxf8 26.Qf7 Bc5 27.Qg8+ Ke7 28.Qxg7+ Kd8 29.Qh8+ Ke7 30.Rg3 and either mates or wins the Q by a skewer. There may be other defences which fellow-kibitzers are welcome to explore using the colours-reversed link http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
Once again you are White, this time your task is to defend the position. |
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| Dec-04-10 | | knight knight: I actually considered 20. Ng6 for a second or two but dismissed it, I can't remember why. Nevermind, bring on Sunday... |
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| Dec-04-10 | | mrsaturdaypants: 20 Nxe6
(a) ...Bxe6 21 Nc6 Qxd1 22 Rxd1, wining.
(b) ...fxe6 22 Qf3, and surely white is winning here. (c) ...Qc8 22 Nxg7+ Kf8 23 e6 looks good enough.
Seems too easy. I must be missing someting.
Time to check. |
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| Dec-04-10 | | wals: I did get the move 20.Ng6 right but that's all.
Rybka 4 x 64
depth: 19 : 7 min :
Black error
(+0.73):13...b4. Best, Ng4, +0.41.
depth: 18 : 6 min :
Black blunder
(+2.90):18...Nxe3. Best, Be7, +0.90.
depth: 20 : 4 min :
White error
(+2.85):23.Rxe7. Best, Rd3, +3.09.
With no blunder forthcoming from White, Black resigned move 29.
The game, if continued, may have
went like this:-
Analysis by Rybka 4 x64:
d : 18 : 8 min :
1. (4.16): 29...Rg8 30.g3 Rh8 31.Qe4 Ke7 32.Qg6[] Qg8 33.Qh5[] Qe8 34.Qf3[] Qb5 35.Qf7+[] Kd8[] 36.Rd1+ Kc8[] 37.Qxe6+ Kb8 38.Rd7 Rc8 39.Rxg7 Rc7 40.Rg6 Qf1+ 41.Ka2[] Qb5 42.Qxa6 Qd5+ 43.c4[] Qxc4+ 44.Qxc4 Rxc4 2. (5.37): 29...a5 30.Qa4+ Qd7 31.Qxa5[] Qb7 32.Qa4+[] Ke7 33.Qd4[] Ke8 34.Qd6[] Qd7 35.Qb8+ Qd8 36.Qb7 Qd7 37.Qa8+ Qd8 38.Qf3 Qd5 39.Qf7+ Kd8 40.Qxg7 Re8 41.Rf3 Qd1+ 42.Ka2 Qd5+ IM Igor Khmelnitsky
"Study position hard examining all
captures and threatening moves.
When you have identified
a serious threat, don't rush
to address it, keep looking for other
threats and then combine the
defensive action". |
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| Dec-04-10 | | muralman: Got the first move just fine, Ng6. Black didn't react the way I thought it would. Good thing, because if the knight had been taken right away, White's work would have been considerably shortened IMO. As it was, the White Queen's pinball moves were fairly easy to imagine. |
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| Dec-04-10 | | gofer: I missed this one. I never even looked at Ng6! But I did see the queen manoeuvre! Instead of going straight to f7 via g6,
the queen faints to d3 first...
A side-step worthy of the mercurial Phil Bennett (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwCb...) 40 seconds into the "Greatest Try Ever"... |
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| Dec-04-10 | | M.Hassan: <johnBoy: What is wrong with 20...Rxd4?>
It is the excellent response to Queen move. I did not see that. I used the term "forced" thinking that Rook had to be supported and Bishop move to b5 could only do that whereas there was another move to save the Rook that you mention. Thank you |
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| Dec-04-10 | | patzer2: For today's Saturday puzzle solution, a little known Hungarian IM, Laszlo Hazai, takes advantage of well known GM Laszlo Szabo's unprotected Rook and weak Queen position to threaten a decisive double attack after 20. Ng6!! fxg6 21. Qd3 (threatening mate-in-two and the unprotected Rook). If 20...Rg8, then 21. Qf3! f6 22. Nxe6 Qc8 23. exf6! (threatening 23...Bxd6?? 24. f7+! Bxf7 25. Qxf7#) wins going away. If 20...Bxd4, then 21. Qf3! f5 22. Nxh8 wins decisive material. If 21...Bxd4, then 21. Qf3! threatening mate and the Rook on h8 also wins decisive material. It was slightly more difficult in the game continuation after 20...Rxd4 21. Rxd4 fxg6 22. Qe4! when this move is the only continuation to insure a clear win. After the game continuation 22... Qe7, 23. Rxd7! Qxd7 (23...Kxd7 24. Qb7+! Ke8 25. Qc8+ Qd8 26. Qxe6+! Be7 27. Qf7+ Kd8 28. Rd1+ ), 24. Qa8+ Qd8 25. Qc6+ springs a double attack to win back the sacrificed material with interest. P.S.: I've put this combination in my combination operations collection, since it involves the deflection, clearance, demolition of pawn structure, double attack, and mating threat tactics. In some variations, the pin, the skewer and Knight Fork tactics also come into play. |
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| Dec-05-10 | | TheBish: L Hazai vs Szabo, 1983 White to play (20.?) "Very Difficult"
Doing this a little late (a day late and a dollar short, although really only about an hour late). Seeing that the Rc4 was loose (undefended), and combining that with attacking the king somehow, I found what I think is the winning plan. 20. Ng6!
Now if 20...fxg6 21. Qd3 wins the exchange, as 21...Rxd4 22. Qxg6+ Ke7 23. Qf7 is mate. So... 20...Rxd4 21. Rxd4 fxg6
(Or 21...Bxd4 22. Qf4 f6 23. Nxh8 Bxe5 24. Qg4 with a winning attack.) 22. Qe4 Qe7
Now 23. Qxg6+ Kd8 looks unconvincing, but I found something better. 23. Rxd7! Qxd7
(Or 23...Kxd7 24. Qb7+ Ke8 25. Qc8+ Qd8 26. Qxc5 is similar.) 24. Qa8+ Qd8 25. Qxc5 Qb7
Pretty forced to defend b4, as 25...Qe7 fails to 26. Qc8+ Qd8 27. Qxe6+. 26. Qd6
Now Black's queen can't defend a6, b4 and e6, but e6 is more crucial. 26...Qc8 27. Qxb4
White is now up a pawn, but up two on the queenside. Worse, Black's king and rook situation is horrible, so it's just a matter of time. Black is toast! |
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Dec-05-10
| | scormus: <gofer> love the link. Welsh wizardry to match the magical Magyars - the 2 half-backs starting and ending it. I watched it at the time and the best I ever saw was in that game. I'll forward it to my friend from Agen, he's sure to appreciate it. |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 23.Rxd7