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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Apr-04-10 | | johnlspouge: < <lost in space> wrote: [snip] hole [snip] > Here, you mean "whole", a homonym.
I could apologize endlessly for the spelling of my language... |
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| Apr-04-10 | | RandomVisitor: White might have a better 15th move (15.fxe5 was played):
click for larger view Rybka 3:
<[+0.45] d=21 15.Ra3> 0-0 16.f5 Nf6 |
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| Apr-04-10 | | johnlspouge: < <patzer2> wrote: [snip] The hardest move in the combination is the followup 22. Qg4! . > Toga evaluates 22.Rf1+ at better than +3 P for White, so the difference between 22.Rf1+ and 22.Qg4 is the difference between a crush and a rout. |
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Apr-04-10
 | | Jimfromprovidence: I followed the line of<dzechiel> and one of the lines put forward by <tarek1>. Dave stopped his line after 25…Qd8. I diverged with <tarek1> after 26…Qd7, below. 21.Rxf6+ Kxf6 22.Rf1+ Ke7 23.Qg4 Ke8 24.Qe6+ Qe7 25.Qxc8+ Qd8 26 Qc6+ Qd7.
click for larger view27 Qxb6 looks like the way to go here, putting white up by two pawns and threatening the a pawn as well.
click for larger viewIf black follows with 27…Qc8, then 28 Qa7 wins at least a third pawn by threatening Qf7+, with mate to follow.
click for larger view |
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| Apr-04-10 | | sethoflagos: Checking around the black king, e6 is weak and if white could put his queen there directly, it would be mate. Bishop e5 blocks the direct route (and so is temporarily pinned) and the indirect route via g4 can be blocked by f5 or defended by Re8 (or Qd7/e7). Mate requires Q, B and Pd5. In principle, all other resources are cannon fodder. All of which tends to suggest 21. Rxf6+ as the initial breakthrough, preventing the blocking move f5. <21. Rxf6+ Kxf6
22. Qg4 ....>
Leaving aside the possibly futile Qc5+, black must now play Re8, Qd7/e7/f7 or Ke7 to prevent immediate mate from 23. Qe6 Line 1
<22. ... Rhe8
23. Qf3+ Kd7> 23. .. Bf4 24. Qxf4+
<24. Bg5+ Bf6
25. Qxf6+ Kd7
26. Qf7+ Re7
27. Qxe7#>
Line 2
<22. .... Rce8
23. Rf1+ Ke7
24. Bg5+ Bf6
25. Rxf6 h3
26. Qe6+ Kd8
27. Rf8+ Qe7
28. Qxe7+ Kc8
29. Qxe8+ Kc7
30. Rf7#> 29 ... Kb7 30. Qd7#
Line 3
<22. ... Qe7> 22. ... Qe7 23. Rf1+ Bf4 24. Rxb4#; 22. ... Qf7 23. Qg5# <23. Rf1+ Ke7
24. Rf7+ Kxf7
25. Qxd7+ Kg8> 25. ... Kf6 26. Qe6#
<26. Qxc8+ Kf7
27. Qe6#>
So all attempts to defend e6 with R or Q fall to forced mate. Line 4
<22. ... Ke7> 22. ... Kf6 23. Qe6# <23. Qe6+ Kd8
24. Bg5+ Bf6
25. Bxf6+ Qe7
26. Qxe7#>
However, if black vacates c7 with 22 ... Qc5+ 23. Kh1 Ke7, the black king has an escape. So this is the one line where 21. ... Kxf6 doesn't lead to forced mate (at least not one I can find) |
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| Apr-04-10 | | Utopian2020: At first glance, I see that if the queen could get to e6 it would be mate, but there is a bishop is in the way. 21...Qg4 would be met with f5 or Rhe8. So now what? Since this is an insane puzzle something insane is in order. What happens if 21...Rxf6? 22. Bxf6 leads to Qe6++, so instead 22. Kxf6 Rf1+, 23. Ke7 (forced) Qg4. Now black's king is under extreme pressure. 24. Qd7 Rf7+ 25. Kxf7 Qxd7 mate soon to follow or 24 Qc5+ Kh1 doesn't solve black's problem. Black is going down substantial material to protect the king. This must be it.
Wow, my line is winning, but the game line is much more efficient. |
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| Apr-04-10 | | lippizan: Does anybody see my answer of 21. Rxf6+ Kxf6 22. Rf1+Ke7 23. Qg5 a problem? |
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| Apr-04-10 | | johnlspouge: < <lippizan> wrote: Does anybody see my answer of 21. Rxf6+ Kxf6 22. Rf1+Ke7 23. Qg5 a problem? > As I wrote below, 22.Rf1+ is a rout, not a crush, but it certainly wins. |
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| Apr-04-10 | | tarek1: Rybka confirms that the line posted by <Jimfromprovidence> is actually the best in the whole 22.Rf1+ branch. After <27.Qxb6 Qc8 28.Qa7> as posted by Jim, Black only has <28...Qd7> (28...Qc5+ 29.Qxc5 dxc5 30.Re1 wins the bishop on top of the 2 pawns white has now...)
<29.Qxa6> white is 3 pawns up and black is paralysed because his rook on h8 is dead wood and his queen must always control g5, otherwise Bg5 would mate. 
click for larger view |
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| Apr-04-10 | | Marmot PFL: I thought this was slightly easier than yesterday (where i tried an <unsound> rook sac). |
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| Apr-04-10 | | reti: Rxf6 was the logical contination. |
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Apr-04-10
 | | Domdaniel: <johnlspouge> OK, your homonym alert is valid, and 'whole' rather than 'hole' was probably intended. Yet <hole thing> also works rather well here, given that hole on e6 which is the key to Smyslov's attack. What fascinates me is how far ahead the players see these things. We can be certain that Smyslov didn't 'find' 21.Rxf6+ -- he aimed for the puzzle position. And he must have seen the Qg4 line when he played 19.Bg4, though the outline attack could have been in his mind as early as 12.Nd5. Smyslov often strikes like lightning in a position for which both players aimed. He simply saw further and sooner. The hole tamale. |
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Apr-04-10
 | | agb2002: The material is even.
Black threatens the pawn on c4, but only after regrouping the heavy pieces (... Rhe8, ... Qc5+, ... Qb(d)4, etc.). Many squares around the black king look unprotected, particularly the diagonal c8-h3. White might exploit them with 21.Rxf6+, creating more weaknesses and exposing the black king: A) 21... Bxf6 22.Qe6#.
B) 21... Kxf6 22.Qg4 (22.Rf1+ Ke7 23.Bg5+ Ke8 (23... Kd7 24.Qg4+ Ke8 25.Qe6+ Qe7 26.Qxe7#) 24.Qg4 Qd7 and White's attack vanishes) B.1) 22... Rhe8 23.Rf1+ Ke7 (23... Bf4 24.Rxf4+ Ke5 (24... Ke7 25.Bg5#) 25.Qe2#) 24.Bg5+ Bf6 25.Bxf6+ Kf7 (25... Kf8 26.Bd8+ Qf7 27.Rxf7+ Kxf7 28.Qxd8 + - [Q+B+P vs R]) 26.Bd8+ and 27.Bxc7 + - [Q+P vs R]. B.2) 22... Rce8 is similar to B1.
B.3) 22... Bd4+ 23.Qxd4+ Ke(f)7 (23... Kf5 24.Rf1#) 24.Re(f)1+ followed by 25.Qg7+, 26.Qxh8+, 27.Qg7+ and 28.Rf8#. B.4) 22... Qf7 23.Rf1+ Ke7 24.Rxf7+ Kxf7 25.Qe6#.
B.5) 22... Qc5+ 23.Kh1
B.5.a) 23... Rhe8 24.Rf1+ Ke7 25.Bg5+ Bf6 26.Bxf6+ and 27.Be3+ + - [Q+P vs R]. B.5.b) 23... Rce8 24.Rf1+ is similar to B.5.a.
C) 21... Ke7 22.Re6+
C.1) 22... Kd8 23.Bg5+ Kd7 24.Re7+ Kd8 25.Rxe5+ Kd7 26.Qg4#. C.2) 22... Kd7 23.Rf1
C.2.a) 23... Qxc4 24.Rf7+ Kd8 25.Bg5+ Bf6 26.Bxf6#.
C.2.b) 23... Qc5+ 24.Be3 Bd4 (24... Qxc4 25.Rf7+ transposes to C.2.a) 25.Rf7+ Kd8 26.Qf2 Bxe3 27.Rxe3 Qd4 28.Rd7+ Kxd7 29.Qf7+ Kd8 30.Qe7#. C.3) 22... Kf7 23.Rf1+ Kg8 24.Qg4 and Black looks defenseless against 25.Re8+ Rxe8 26.Qe6+ Rxe6 27.Rf8#, for example, 24... Qb8 25.Rxg6+ hxg6 26.Qxg6+ Bg7 27.Qxg7#, or 24... Qd7 25.Rxg6+ hxg6 26.Qxd7, etc. D) 21... Ke8 22.Re6+ is similar to C.
E) 21... Kg8 22.Qg4
E.1) 22... Bxf6 23.Qe6+ Qf7 24.Qxc8+ and mate in two. E.2) 22... Re8 23.Qe6+ Rxe6 24.Rf8#.
E.3) 22... Qd7 23.Rxg6+, etc. |
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| Apr-04-10 | | krakukas: Argh! I'm just an amateur! It was quite exhausting for me, but I got this one right. After <21.Rxf6+> there's much to analyse. To be honest, it took over 2 hours before I covered all the possible options. I couldn't dream of doing it without a pencil. I'm to chaotic to do all that in my mind only. I hope my English is not THAT bad. |
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Apr-04-10
 | | fm avari viraf: Although, insane but the answer looks pretty obvious since 21.Rxf6+ Black collapses after 21...Kxf6 22.Qg4 with multiple threats like 23.Qe6# 23.Rf1+ where Black looks hapless. BTW Happy Easter to all my friends & fans all over the globe! |
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Apr-04-10
| | Domdaniel: <krakukas> Well done for spending 2 hours on it: I don't have the patience. Your English is just one 'o' short of perfect. "To be honest" and "to analyse" are correct, but *to chaotic* is wrong. You mean 'too chaotic'. English speakers and writers confuse 'to' and 'too' all the time. And two, too. |
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| Apr-04-10 | | tacticalmonster: I found this funny line: 21 Rxf6+ Kg8 22 Raf1! Bxf6 23 Qe6+ Qf7 24 Rxf6 Qxe6 25 dxe6
click for larger viewBlack was hopeless in preventing 26 e7 and 27 Rf8+
a very illustrative line teaching the importance of material quality over material quantity |
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| Apr-04-10 | | MarbleSkull: This is the first insane I've gotten all the way through. |
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| Apr-04-10 | | wals: I spotted Rf6+ O.K but not the final steps.
Rybka 3 1-cpu: 3071mb hash : depth 12:
considered 24.Bg5+ (+ 4.98) a blunder and in one line preferred :- (+11.92)24.Rf1 Bf6 25.Rxf6 Kd8 26.Rf7 Rc7 27.Bg5+ Re7 28.Rxe7 Qc7 29.Re1+ Qe7 30.Rxe7 Re8 31.Qd7# |
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| Apr-04-10 | | eblunt: <tarek1: B) <21...Kxf6 22.Rf1+ Ke7 23.Qg4> threatening Qe6. 23.Bg5+ Ke8 24.Qg4 Qd7 and black seems to hold.> No, 25 ♖f7+ ♔xf7 26 ♕xd7+ and mate next move.
22 ♖f1+ ♔e7 23 ♕g4 wins just as well as the solution. |
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| Apr-04-10 | | rossvassilev: I figured it out. Bxf6 at 21 is mate with 22.Qe6#. |
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| Apr-04-10 | | johnlspouge: < <Domdaniel> wrote: <johnlspouge> [snip] Yet <hole thing> also works rather well here, given that hole on e6 which is the key to Smyslov's attack. > Hi, ever-watchful <DomD>. On the hole, I prefer your interpretation :) |
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| Apr-04-10 | | gofer: A little easy for a Sunday!
21 Rxf6+ ...
21 ... Bxf6 22 Qe6#
21 ... Kxf6 22 Rf1# Ke7 (Bf4 23 Qe6#) 23 Bg5+ Ke8 (Kd7 24 Qg4+ Ke8 25 Qe6+ Qe7 26 Qxe7#) 24 Rf6! winning 21 ... Kg8 22 Raf1 Bxf6 23 Qe6+ Qf7 24 Qxc8+ mating
21 ... Ke7/Ke8 22 Qg4 winning
Time to check! |
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| Apr-04-10 | | Calelsdad22: After 21 Rxf6, I saw 22 Rf1 as continuation, followed by Qg4, same results... :) |
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| Apr-04-10 | | TheBish: Smyslov vs K Grigorian, 1976 White to play (21.?) "Insane"
I found the key move by seeing that the black bishop was the only thing preventing Qe6#. 21. Rxf6+!!
This opens lines to Black's king, and draws the king out. 21...Kxf6
Of course, 21...Bxf6? 22. Qe6 mates, and 21...Ke7 22. Re6+ Kd8 23. Bg5+ Kd7 24. Qg4 is crushing, as is 21...Kg8 22. Qg4! Re8 23. Qe6+!. 22. Qg4!
Even stronger than 22. Rf1+. Now:
A) 22...Qc5+ 23. Kh1 Ke7 24. Rf1! (even stronger than 24. Bg5+) and now Black must give up serious material (i.e. 24...Rcf8) to stop mate, since 24...Kd8 25. Rf7 Rc7 26. Bg5+ leads to mate. An amusing line here is 24...Bf6 25. Rxf6! (since 25...Kxf6 26. Qe6#) Rce8 26. Bg5! and it's all over but the shouting, e.g. 26...Qc8 27. Rf1# or 26...h6 27. Qe6+ Kd8 28. Rf7+ Re7 29. Qxd7+ Kc8 30. Qb7#. B) 22...Ke7 23. Qe6+ Kd8 24. Bg5+ and mate in two. |
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Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 21.Rxf6+