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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jun-03-12 | | gofer: I seem to have seen either this position before or something
very like it. Black's king looks safe, but in reality it has
no escape route! White can sacrifice the knight for a strong
attack. The only question is whether we start with Qh5 or Nxf7 15 Qh5 ...
15 ... Rf8 16 Rxe7 
15 ... Nxe5 16 Bxe5
15 ... g6 16 Qxh6
15 ... hxg5 16 Bd3! g6 17 Bxg6 fxg6 18 Qxg6+ Kf8 19 Re3
15 ... Bxg5 16 Bxg5 hxg5 17 Bd3! g6 18 Bxg6 fxg6 19 Qxg6+ Kf8
19 Re3
So the only question that remains is does Nxf7 work? There seems
to be a nice combination where the king gets into real trouble. 15 Nxf7 Kxf7
16 Rxd7 ...
16 ... Qxd7
17 Rxd7 Rxd7
18 Qh5
16 ... Rxd7
17 Bxe6+! Kxe6
18 Qc4+ Kf4
19 Qf7+ Bf6
20 Rxd7 Qc8
I'll go for this second option. White's complete domination of the
white squares around the king looks too good to pass up! Time to check...
~~~
I saw some of this but not enough to claim the full point. Very nice
attack by white! |
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Jun-03-12
 | | OhioChessFan: It's only because it was set up as a puzzle position that I sort of got it. Nxf7 just <had> to be the first move. I'm with the crowd that expected 16...Rxd7. |
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Jun-03-12
 | | chrisowen: Finding Nxf7 is it the key? Looks it alright in seems it gunning for f7 open black like a nut crack him underneath and lure the black king forward it slink over the precipe after nxf7 kxf7 rxd7 rxd7 bxe6+ kxe6 qc4+ i bobbing for apple around the king luring him too fate in the open it shutting a quick victory to believe in qxd7? i expect king hunt follow again although i cant provide all the detail to mate yet it something like rxd7 rxd7 qh5+ Seidman go on to a lovely coup producing one after another in, church of thought give black developed it slowly white can pour on the parade in with quick it tactical blow. |
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Jun-03-12
| | chrisowen: Frankly Anthony gets it botched in early it stipulate in b6 little known line not entirely unplayable can in effect after e2 and a6 eck it stubborn on tame it h6 in weak it e6 in f7 too main point of attraction for white again to make the mark floating g5 lure h6 in and the firework in lit strong central piece placement by white give the opportunity to breaker in f7 press it isnt king up and again undermine e6 with rookd7 coming next it hunt in Bxe6+ kxe6 qc4+ and the bottom its fallen out lift kf5 and white in will regain the material for having d7 to invade after f7 in forces it Bf6 example it her in heap of trouble black under gauged the light complete bind of d6 a permanent thorn letting off tactics it. |
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| Jun-03-12 | | Patriot: Material is even.
Black threatens 15...hxg5 or 15...Bxg5.
White could try <15.Nxf7 Kxf7 16.Qh5+> or even 15.Ne4 looks pretty good. 16...g6 looks like a problem. 17.Qh3 (17.Qxh6 Rh8 looks troublesome), adding pressure to e6 and threatening 18.Bxh6. 16...Kg8 17.Bxh6 looks ok, allowing a rook-lift at some point. 17...gxh6 18.Qg6+ Kh8 19.Qxh6+ Kg8 20.Rd3 or 18...Kf8 19.Rd3 looks very strong. Also possible is 17.Qg6 Bg5 but I think this is better for black's defense. 16...Kf8 17.Bxh6 gxh6 18.Qxh6+ followed by 19.Rd3. |
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| Jun-03-12 | | Patriot: I noticed the possibility of 16.Rxd7 but there are just too many other ideas to consider as well. Very tough! |
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| Jun-03-12 | | rilkefan: I think I got the variation with 16...Rxd7, but had to play it on a board to make sure. Didn't follow the 16...Qxd7 line. |
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| Jun-03-12 | | BlackSheep: I guess I'm with the faction that expected 16...Rxd7 , I think the ideas in the position were pretty much in plain sight but the nuances were much more difficult to untangle (for me anyway) . |
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Jun-03-12
 | | Jimfromprovidence: I found this one very difficult, because there is a line here that even though it's forced, it shows black putting up major resistance. It goes 15 Nxf7 Kxf7 16 Rxd7 Rxd7 17 Bxe6+ Kxe6 18 Qc4+ Kf5 19 Qf7+ Bf6 20 Rxd7 Nxe5!? 
click for larger viewit looks like black might hold off white’s challenge, because the knight is untouchable (21 Bxe5 Qxe5 with a back rank mate threat puts black ahead). But white has one more bullet, 21 Qh5+. Now the black queen is lost. 
click for larger view |
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Jun-03-12
 | | agb2002: The material is equal.
Black threatens 15... hxg5.
The first idea that comes to mind is the obvious 15.Nxf7 Kxf7 (forced because the rook can't abandon the protection of d7) 16.Rxd7: A) 16... Rxd7 17.Bxe6+
A.1) 17... Kxe6 18.Qc4+ Kf5 19.Qf7+
A.1.a) 19... Ke4 20.f3#.
A.1.b) 19... Kg4 20.f3+ Kh5 21.g3+ Kh3 22.Qf5#.
A.1.c) 19... Bf6 20.Rxd7 Qc8 (20... Rd8 21.Qh5+ and 22.Rxc7; 20... Qxd7 21.Qxd7+ Kxf4 22.Qxb7; 20... Qd8 21.Rxd8 Rxd8 22.Qh5+) 21.exf6 is unclear. A.2) 17... Kxe6 19.Qg4+ Kf7 20.Rxd7 (20.e6+ Kg8 21.Bxc7 Rxc7 - +) 20... Qc8 (20... Nxe5 21.Qf5+ and 22.Rxc7) 21.e6+ Kg8 (21... Ke8 22.Qg6+ Kf8 23.Qxf7#; 21... Kf8 22.Qg6 Qe8 23.Qh7) 22.Bxh6 Bf6(8) 23.Rxg7+ wins. 19.Qg4+ looks stronger than 19.Qc4+. A.3) 17... Ke8 18.Qh5+ Kd8 (18... Kf8 19.Qf7#) 19.Rxd7+ Qxd7 20.Bxd7 Kxd7 21.Qg4+ and 22.Qxg7 + - [Q+4P vs R+B+N]. A.4) 17... Kf8 18.Rxd7 Qc8 19.Rxe7 looks winning.
A.5) 17... Kg6 18.Qe4+ Kh5 19.Bf7+ g6 20.Bxg6+ Kg(h)4 21.Bxh6#. B) 16... Qc8 17.Bxe6+ looks similar to previous lines but White still keeps both rooks. C) 16... Qxd7 17.Rxd7 Rxd7 18.Bxe6+ Kxe6 19.Qg4+ Kf7 20.Qxd7 Rd8 21.Qf5+ Kg8 22.h4 + - [Q+3P vs R+B+N]. D) 16... Nd4 17.R1xd4 Rxd7 18.Bxe6+ looks similar to previous lines. |
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Jun-03-12
| | agb2002: <Jimfromprovidence:> That's why I had the impression that 18.Qg4+ was stronger. However, after 18.Qg4+ Kf7 19.Rxd7 Qc8 20.e6+ Kg8 21.Bxh6 Black holds with 21... Qf8 instead of what I saw ... Bf6(8), so that 22.Rxb7 leaves White with a certain advantage, but perhaps not decisive. |
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| Jun-03-12 | | PeaceRequiresAnarchy: I got the first two moves and had the right idea, but I didn't check all of black's possible defenses. OTB I definitely would have taken longer to check everything before playing the sac. |
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| Jun-03-12 | | David2009: Seidman vs Santasiere, 1939 White 15? It's Sunday and I'm feeling lazy - 17.Nxf7 is the sort of rubbish I play in rapid play seeing (hoping for?)
17...Kxf7 18.Rxd7 Rxd7 19.Bxe6+ Kxe6 20.Qg4+ Kf7 21.Rxd7 and I haven't got enough for my two pieces - Black
can even try 21...Qxd7 22.Qxd7 Rd8 and I can't capture the Bb7 so I have to beat a retreat: 23.Qf5+ Kg8 24.Qg4
guards d1 and threatens Bxh6 - but this can't be winning. Perhaps I should play Qh5+ instead of either Rxd7 or
Bxe6+ ? Decisions decisions - this is exactly how I lose on time in rapids. Hey, Sunday's a day of rest - let the
<chessgames.com> kibitzers do the work. Time to
check:
===
Black takes with the Queen not the R. What is going on?
click for larger view
<agb2002> shows the shallowness of my "analysis":
17.Nxf7 Kxf7 18.Rxd7 Rxd7 19.Bxe6+ Kxe6 20.Qc4+!! and Black is busted. Crafty End Game Trainer check of the puzzle position (diagram above):
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t....
Much to my surprise the EGT allows the <agb2002> bust line resisting with
16...Rxd7 17.Bxe6+ Kxe6 18.Qc4+ Kf5 19.Qf7+ Bf6 20.Rxd7 Nxe5 21.Qh5+ Kxf4 22.Rxc7 Bf3 23.gxf3 Rd8 24.Kg2 Rd6 25.Rf7! Rd8 26.Rxf6+ gxf6 27.Qxh6+ Kf5
to reach after 13 moves
click for larger view (Seidman vs Santasiere 1939 var 28?) which I think should be won with careful White play. Further interactive link: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t.... Enjoy finding the win, or improving on this line, or exp[loring the very rich alternatives The Jubilee celebrations went off very well and the French TV did us proud with some very friendly and sympathetic coverage. Un grand merci France 2 pour votre transmission avec sa magnifique couverture des célébrations ! Did anyone manage to salvage the draw against Crafty yesterday? (see S Agdestein vs Nunn, 1985). |
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| Jun-03-12 | | pain191: nice checkmate! |
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| Jun-03-12 | | rilkefan: <<JFP>: ...Ne5> Oops, didn't look at that in my main line. |
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| Jun-03-12 | | njchess: Yeah, I agree. It's not an insane puzzle because of the position of White's knight. The real insanity is the amount of material White must give up to secure a winning position! |
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| Jun-03-12 | | TeaChess: <abg2002>: A.2) 17... Kxe6 19.Qg4+ Kf7 20.Rxd7 Qc8 21.e6+ Kf6 |
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| Jun-03-12 | | LIFE Master AJ: Permit me to disagree with those who said that this was not an insane puzzle. I set it up on a board last night, and spent over an hour ... (not moving the pieces). The first move is fairly obvious, but all the fantastic shots after that are not. (IMO) |
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| Jun-03-12 | | Patriot: <<LIFE Master AJ>: Permit me to disagree with those who said that this was not an insane puzzle.> I completely agree! There is quite a lot to consider. |
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| Jun-03-12 | | M.Hassan: "Insane" White to move 15?
Sides are equal
The more I looked at this puzzle, the more I became inclined to think that the f7 square is the key square to solve this problem: 15.Nxf7 Kxf7
16.Rxd7 Rxd7
17.Bxe6+ Kf8
<if...Kxe6 18.Qc4+ Kf5 19.Qf7+ Kg4 20.h3#
or 19...Ke4 20.Re1#>
18.Rxd7 Nd4
19.cxd4 Qc6
20.d5 Qxa4
21.Qf3
so far, White has become 2 pawns ahead and has a very strong position and can make a strong attack on f7 21...........Bf6
22.Rf7+ Kg8
23.Rf6+ Kh7
24.Bc1 gxf6
25.Qf5+ Kh8
26.Qxf6+ Kh7
27.Qxh6# |
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| Jun-04-12 | | patzer2: If 16... Rxd7, Fritz 12 gives 17. Bxe6+ Kxe6 18. Qc4+! Kf5 19. Qf7+
Bf6 20. Rxd7 Nxe5 21. Qh5+ Kxf4 22. Rxc7 Bc6 23. g3+ Ke4 24. f4 Ke3 25. fxe5 Bf3 26. Qf7 Rd8 27. Rd7 Bg4 28. Rxd8 Bxd8 29. Qf4+ Ke2 30. Qxg4+ . |
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| Jun-04-12 | | Marmot PFL: I didn't look at much beyond 15 Nxf7 Kxf7 16 Rxd7 Rxd7 17 Bxe6+ Kxe6 18 Qc4+ Kf5 19 Qf7+ etc. Of course there is much more going on than this, but retreating the knight would be very cowardly play. |
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| Jun-04-12 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: I had this, but missed the best continuation against the 16... Qxd7 line. |
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| Jun-05-12 | | LoveThatJoker: Sunday, June 3rd, 2012
<15. Nxf7! Kxf7>
[15...Rf8 16. Rxd7 Qc8 17. Bxe6 (17. Nxh6+ looks good also) 17...Rxf7 18. Qh5 Qe8 19. Rxb7 ] <16. Rxd7 Rxd7>
[16...Qxd7 17. Rxd7 Rxd7 18. Bxe6+ Kxe6 19. Qg4+ Kf7 20. Qxd7 Rd8 21. Qf5+ and 22. h3  ; 16...Qb8 17. Qh5+ Kg8 (17...g6 18. Bxe6+ ) 18. Bxe6+ Kh7 19. Bxh6 gxh6 20. Qf7+ Kh8 21. Qg6 mating] <17. Bxe6+ Kxe6>
(17...Kf8 18. Rxd7 )
<18. Qc4+ Kf5>
[18...Rd5 19. Qxd5+ Kf5 20. Qf7+ Kg4 (20...Ke4 21. f3#; 20...Bf6 21. Qxc7 ) 21. f3+ Kh4 22. g3+ Kh3 23. Qh5+ Bh4 24. Qxh4#] <19. Qf7+ Bf6>
(19...Ke4 20. f3#; 19...Kg4 20. f3+ Kh4 21. g3+ Kh3 22. Qh5+ Bh4 23. Qxh4#) <20. Rxd7> to as White will restore equality in the force count and have a positional advantage over Black. LTJ |
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| Jun-05-12 | | LoveThatJoker: Got it! Yet in the game continuation, I did not consider 18. Qh5+ which is stronger - although my line is winning as well, yet not as convincingly. Therefore 0.80 out of 1 for this puzzle.
I end the week of May 28th - June 3rd with a 5.30 out 7 with a pass. LTJ |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
sac: 15.Nxf7