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| Oct-31-03 | | sleepkid: It's a nice little problem, with some finesse. However, after looking at it some more. . . I think 19. ...Ng8 is a blunder on black's part. 19. ...Ng6 seems to hold the position. (For example: 20. Qh6 Rg8 21. Rh3 Nf8 22. Qxf6+ Rg7 23. Rg3 Ng6.) Maybe the win is still there, perhaps by pushing the h pawn after 20. Qxf6+ Kg8 - however, it seems to me that black gets a lot of counterplay, still has the extra piece, and the win (if it's still there) becomes problematic. Chessgames: Could you have Crafty analyze the position after 19. ...Ng6? |
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| Oct-31-03 | | dorn: There is no mate after 19...Ng6 but White gains decisive advantage: 20.Qxf6+ Kg8 21.Nf5 exf5 22.Qxb6. 20.Qxf6+ is a little bit stronger than 20.Qh6 Rg8 21.Rh3 Rg7 22.exf6 Rag8 23.Rd1 e5 24.fxg7+ Rxg7 25.Rb3+- |
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| Oct-31-03 | | dorn: After 19...Ng6 20.Qh6 Rg8 21.Rh3 Nf8 22.Qxf6+ Rg7 White plays 23.Nf5! with the capture of Black's Queen. |
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| Oct-31-03 | | stef21: nice sound combination, the trick was unprotected Queen on b6 |
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| Oct-31-03 | | rndapology: Second that...crafty analysis after 19...Ng6 please. |
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| Oct-31-03 | | northernsoul: after 19 ... Ng6 there follows 20 Qh6 then 21 Rh3, with mate unavoidable on h7 surely |
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| Oct-31-03 | | northernsoul: but of course 20 ... Rg8 followed by 21 ... Nf8 leaves white still having to prove the worth of the sacrifice... silly me |
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| Oct-31-03 | | stef21: dorn pointed out
19.. Ng6 20.Qxf6+ Kg8 21.Nf5! exf5 22.Qxb6 ++- |
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| Oct-31-03 | | DexterGordon: 21. Nf5 is very nice! I didn't look at 18. Nf6 very deeply because of the Ng6 reply. Like Sneaky, I did play with 18. Qxg7 for a bit, wishing I had a bishop all the while... :-) |
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| Oct-31-03 | | noone2: After 18 Nf6 why not ...Bb5
19 N:b5 Q:b5 20 Qh4 h6 (followed by Ng8 as required.
I think black is ok |
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| Oct-31-03 | | stef21: noone2
do not forget 20. Nxh7! in your analyses followed by Qh4+ picking up the knight |
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| Oct-31-03 | | Andy White: hmm, 18...Bb5 does look like the right move. I can't see a simple attack for white after the line you proposed. |
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Oct-31-03
 | | Honza Cervenka: <euripides> 19...Qc5 20.Rh3 and what can black do with threatening Qxh7#? |
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| Oct-31-03 | | noone2: Honza, what are you looking at black never plays 19...Qc5 |
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Oct-31-03
| | Honza Cervenka: <noone2> It is a little bit confusing now as euripides have deleted his previous comment. He asked if 19...Qc5 gives any hope to black. |
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| Oct-31-03 | | noone2: Actually I think stef21 is on the right track - after 20 N:h7 the N cannot be taken because of 20 N:h7 K:h7 21 Qh4+ Kg8 22 Rh3 f6 23 e:f6 R:f6 24 Qh8+ Kf7 25 Q:a8 Qg5+ 26 Rd2 Rf2 27 Rhd1 Q:g2 28 R:f2 Q:f2 29 Q:b7  . But perhaps the N does not need to be taken. 20 N:h7 Rfc8 21 Nf6 Nf5! (and this N can be used to cover the h file). Black has chances |
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| Oct-31-03 | | Fulkrum: I don't think Black is forced to take the knight on f6. But the bishop hangs on d7. Hmmmm, how about 18...Qc7. I guess white could sac the knight on h7. Looks a little murky to me. |
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| Oct-31-03 | | DWINS: noone2, after 20...Rfc8, I think 21.Ng5 is better than Nf6. After 21...Kg8 22.Rhd1 Nf5 23.Qf4 white will eventually play his rook to d7 and start pushing his g and h pawns. Black is still alive but white has all the play. Fulkrum, 18...Qc7 19.Qg5 (threatens Rh3) gxf6 20.Qxf6+ Kg8 21.Qxe7 Qd8 22.Qb4 and white is a solid pawn ahead with good kingside attacking chances after he mobilizes his rook on h1. Again, black is alive but is in a lot of pain! |
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| Oct-31-03 | | MiCrooks: I looks like Bb5 was the best chance after Nf6. White still has an advantage but it not the decisive advantage that comes from accepting the sac. On Nxb5 the in-between move Nf5 is useful. One possible line is 20. Qh3 gxf6 21. Nd6 fxe5 22. Qh5 where Nxd6 fails to Rh3. It looks like Qc7 is best try when now 23. Nxf5 exf5 24. Qxf5 where Qc6 is forced to deal with mate threat of Qf6+. White now gets the e-pawn with check up material and position, but Black is still alive. |
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| Oct-31-03 | | talchess2003: <I bet I'm not the only one who saw 18.Nf6! gxf6 19.gxf6? Ng6, and then scratched their head at how to continue. 19.Qh4! is the real finesse here, in my opinion. I wonder, though, if I'm the only one here who wasted a little time looking at the insane 18.Qxg7+?? I bet not =)> LOL sneaky that was same for me.. we have these mating patterns in our head and that one just wasn't filed in there.. this could be called a 'true creation'. Is this finally a shift in difficulty? Well, what I think is that this is just original, nothing special with calculation - its like that Qg3 move made by Marshall,Levitsky vs Marshall, 1912 just not as terrific - its hard to recognize but when it becomes apparent it is clear and easily calculable. |
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Nov-01-03
 | | patzer2: <ChessGames.Com> You may wish to have <Crafty> recheck Fritz's analysis below, which indicates yesterday's problem for this game is a bust! White's 18. Nf6 is not a forced win and does not appear to lead to any clear white advantage. Fritz 8 confirms <noone2>, <stef21> and <Microoks> suggestion that black holds the postion with 18...Bb5!, giving white at best only a slight advantage in a balanced position. Fritz 8's analysis gives best play as 18...Bb5 19. Nxb5 Qxb5 20. Qf4 h6 21. Rh3 Ng8 22. Re1 Rad8 23. Kb1 b6 24. Qg4 Rd2 25. Rg3 g6 (+0.44 @ 17/17 depth & 744kN/s) and white has only a slight advantage in a near level position. However, in another deep analysis of the last move of the above analyzed position, Fritz chages the assessment above and indicates white has nothing better than 26. Nxg8 (-0.03 @ 13/43 depth & 725kN/s) with slightly better than full equality for black! After 18...Bb5 19. Nxb5 Qxb5, Fritz indicates white should consider: 20. Qg5 h6 21. Rh3 Ng8 22. Nxg8 Kxg8 23. Rxh6 Rac8 24. Rh4 f5 25. Qh5 Qxe5 26. Kb1 (+0.41) with again only a slight advantage in a balanced position. 20. Nxh7 (see <stef21> & <noone2> commentary above) 20. ...Kxh7 21. Qh4+ Kg8 22. Qxe7 Rac8 23. Rhd1 Qc4 24. c3 Qxa2 25. Qg5 Rc5 26. Rd8 Rc8 (+0.19) with equality. 20. Rb3 Qa5 21. Qh4 h6 22. Nd7 Rfe8 23. Nb6 Rad8 24. Nc4 Qd4 25. Qg4 (+0.16) with equality. However 20. Qh3?? fails here, as black wins after 20...gxf6! 21. exf6 Rad8 22. Qg3 Nxf6 23. Qh4 Qe5 24. Rf3 Ng8 25. Rxf7 Rxf7 26. Qxd8 Rf2 (-2.59 @ 16/50 depth & 739kN/s). |
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| Nov-01-03 | | crafty: 18...♗b5 19. ♘xb5 ♕xb5 20. ♖b3 ♕c4 21. ♕g4 b5 22. ♕xc4 = (eval 0.29; depth 13 ply; 2000M nodes) |
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Aug-24-04
| | patzer2: Laszlo Polgar has this as number 4481 in his 1994 Book "5334 Problems, Combinations and Games" as a win for White after 18. Nf6. However, as the participants on ChessGames.Com demonstrated earlier, it only draws. |
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| May-08-07 | | wolfmaster: Wiel of Fortune. |
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| Apr-20-08 | | JimmyVermeer: patzer2, I have the same book as you but it doesn't say that 18 Nf6 is a win for white. It shows an exclamation mark by the move, but that merely means it was a good move, but sometimes a draw is a good move, when other alternatives lead to a win for black. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 18.Nf6